Western higher degree

**kendokamexico** · 10th February 2010, 03:09 AM

Hello to everyone!, could you tell me who is the occidental kenshi with the highest degree? are there an occidental kenshi Hachidan? if not, why? Thanks a lot.

**b8amack** · 10th February 2010, 09:09 AM

No non-asian hachidan, afaik. Since well upwards of 99% of the members of this board would never pass the hachidan exam, asian or not, why is sort of a non-issue.

**rfoxmich** · 10th February 2010, 09:10 AM

I know of at least one western 7-dan who regularly follows this forum.

**1stdan** · 10th February 2010, 11:30 AM

The ones I know are Dallas has a Rokudan, Denver has a Rokudan Renshi, And PNKF has a Nanadan, not sure but prolly renshi as well. Those are only the ones I am aware of.

**atgm** · 10th February 2010, 12:46 PM

If you do some simple math, it seems really unlikely that we'll have a Western hachidan in the near future.

Compile numbers of all of the nanadan in the world (since they're the ones who can take the hachidan exam). Westerners are barely a drop in the ocean there. Then apply the percentage of people that pass the hachidan exam and the Western percentage pretty much vanishes.

There's also the matter of cost; not only do they have to pay for the exam itself (which is something like 1700 USD IIRC), there's also plane fare and lodging, so a single trial for hachidan can run the prospective applicant over 3000 dollars! That's a not-inconsiderable sum of money...

**D'Artagnan** · 10th February 2010, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by atgm

There's also the matter of cost; not only do they have to pay for the exam itself (which is something like 1700 USD IIRC), there's also plane fare and lodging, so a single trial for hachidan can run the prospective applicant over 3000 dollars! That's a not-inconsiderable sum of money...

Having said that I personally know of 3 Europeans who have tested for 8th Dan, and one who passed the first screening, so it might not be so far off after all...

**atgm** · 10th February 2010, 02:51 PM

Oh, wow. I hadn't heard of any who passed the screening, so that's incredibly encouraging news.

**MartialArtsGirl** · 15th February 2010, 06:38 PM

Why is it so expensive to take the test? Uhm, seriously.... just, seriously... $1700 dollars?
I'm sorry, but uhhhm, that should be a crime. >.<
Is it easier to pay that on a Japanese salary?
I have actually decided that $1700 is unbelievable. Atm, you must have made a typo because that just doesn't make sense. (except that atm added up the numbers and got $3000...)
No one else thinks that's, uhm, unreal? $1700 just to TAKE the test? Am I missing something here?

**ben** · 15th February 2010, 07:39 PM

Not sure if it's that much to take the test, or rather, that much if you pass. If it is the latter, then even 10x that amount would probably still not wipe the smile off my face.

b

PS - I probably spent about $3000 on my 6 dan attempt in Tokyo last year.

**ender84567** · 16th February 2010, 12:40 AM

MAG, look at the menjo fees for kodansha sometime... they should be posted and available.

**tango** · 16th February 2010, 01:16 AM

I know of at least 2 non-Asian Americans who are 7.dan ... one of those is kyoshi as well, but not sure about the other...

..and both are on this forum.

**Kim Taylor** · 16th February 2010, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by atgm

If you do some simple math, it seems really unlikely that we'll have a Western hachidan in the near future.

Compile numbers of all of the nanadan in the world (since they're the ones who can take the hachidan exam). Westerners are barely a drop in the ocean there. Then apply the percentage of people that pass the hachidan exam and the Western percentage pretty much vanishes.

There's also the matter of cost; not only do they have to pay for the exam itself (which is something like 1700 USD IIRC), there's also plane fare and lodging, so a single trial for hachidan can run the prospective applicant over 3000 dollars! That's a not-inconsiderable sum of money...

You speak of doing the hachidan test in Japan. In fact the FIK guidelines state that the hachidan exam is up to the individual FIK countries, there is no requirement to go to Japan to grade unless a country has made it a requirement. Hachidan is a function of a lot of different factors, including whether or not there are lots of hachidan in your area. This may seem rather "unfair" but remember that the hachidan are the top-top of the ladder, they are the leaders of the federation so there is no particular urgency to have huge numbers of them around, this would make things overly-complicated.

Kim.

**tango** · 16th February 2010, 04:38 AM

What Kim says is very true... however, I find it hard to believe that any country would set up rules for its own 8.dan shinsa that would differ from the way it is set up in Japan.

.. as far as AUSKF is concerned, I think you have to be an AUSKF member to sit on a grading panel...
...and since I'm pretty sure there aren't fifteen AUSKF members who are 8.dan (much less fifteen 8.dans in the U.S.), I just don't think we'd see the U.S. doing its own 8.dan exams anytime soon..

---- because it seems to me that if countries deviated from the way it is done in Japan, there would always seem to be a stigma attached to the guy who got 8.dan "outside Japan".....

...but i could be wrong.

I suppose if every country can set up its own rules, every national board could simply "confer" 8.dan rank on someone if they wanted to.

**ben** · 16th February 2010, 07:22 AM

In kendo at least, the ZNKR seems now not to be allowing any of the sensei they send overseas to officiate a grading any higher than 5th dan, whether or not the panel could legally officiate a higher level. Aus Kendo Cships and grading in April - up to 5th dan; HK Taikai also up to 5th dan, Sumi sensei seminar in NZ up to 4th dan. Interesting to see if this happens in Europe. Nth America may be more self-sufficient. b