Western higher degree

[ender84567]

Like I said, I really don't know anything about it, but I have the impression that the registration fees go mainly to the association. But again, I don't know.

Well the same way the menjo fees go up, does it cost them any more to produce the menjo? Doubtful, its money for the federation, and I agree money well spent. At that level you are pretty dedicated to kendo, so saving up for such a cost is the same as saving for a new set of bogu, you just do it. Its not really that much money in the grand scheme of things if you have a real job. Assuming you live in japan, and take the test both times every year you are probably only looking at about 5k a year to take the 2 tests.... thats chump change, and if you think otherwise wait until you get a real job, and a house etc and see how much things in the real world start to cost...

[atgm]

Chump change? Maybe it's just growing up in a poor family, but even with a job that pays 50k a year, that's a tenth of your salary.

[Kim Taylor]

Grading registration fees are a significant amount of any federation's income each year. In the CKF our yearly membership fee is $20, figure out how far that goes, while the grading fees go up into three figures fairly fast. It makes sense that the grading fees go up with rank as well, the time between gets longer and the numbers grading get less but overall I think I noticed the last grading that we took in, ballpark, about the same amount for each rank. That could have been a fluke so don't rely on it for anything.

At the higher ranks your gradings cost a lot more than you may think. You need to show your face at - for hachidan - EVERY major seminar. Even in Canada it's good advice to show up for every event the year before your 6dan test if you can. Sure we all know each other but how serious are you? If you're looking for 8dan you'd better be damned serious about it. On the hachidan hunt in Japan I would suggest that those who are serious are off somewhere pretty much every single weekend.

And it doesn't stop once you get your rank, then you'll be off every weekend because with that rank it's expected that you're out teaching.

So the grading fee really is chump change compared to the rest of what you'll pay each year. I am by no means super-busy with traveling around for the CKF here in Canada but I am gone about a weekend a month and it works out to about $2500 in gas/travel alone per year. I don't dare add in the beer bills.

My last rank (renshi) cost me $470, I didn't even blink.

Kim.

[ender84567]

Chump change? Maybe it's just growing up in a poor family, but even with a job that pays 50k a year, that's a tenth of your salary.

its not the portion of your salary thats important, but what else are you spending money on? If you are testing for hachidan kendo is a big part of your life and probably your main passion and is where you spend your money.

[D'Artagnan]

I spoke to some of the Kodansha at the Dojo I practice at last night, and although they can't speak for all of Japan, their understanding of the grading fees in Kyoto are that it is considered a kind of 'financial contribution' to Kendo. (From what they told me) the majority of the money for the 'Registration fee' goes to the ZNKR/FIK, who use it for the international cultivation of Kendo by paying for things such as -

-Special practices (in Kyoto for example, there is a semi-regular Kodansha keiko, which is so largely attended it can afford to designate the last hour to 8th dan and above ONLY keiko.)
-Organising Taikai (Particularly the Kyoto taikai comes to mind for ZNKR or the WKC for the FIK)
-Sending delegates abroad (such as Sensei to sit on foreign grading panels)
-Sending equipment abroad
-Funding the National Team (which interestingly I have so far never heard anyone being bitter about, as I have in other countries)
-Administration etc.

And other things too, these are just the examples that came to mind over the discussion.

It's an interesting topic, I hadn't really thought about it before.

[Kim Taylor]

-Funding the National Team (which interestingly I have so far never heard anyone being bitter about, as I have in other countries)

Percentage of total income of the national organization. Quite different between Japan and just about any other country so it's not surprising that you have a larger discussion of spending on elite vs masses in smaller countries.

Kim.

[atgm]

-Funding the National Team (which interestingly I have so far never heard anyone being bitter about, as I have in other countries)

I'd be surprised if you had, considering national pride and the humiliation that would result from Japan not placing in the WKC or something...

[D'Artagnan]

Percentage of total income of the national organization. Quite different between Japan and just about any other country so it's not surprising that you have a larger discussion of spending on elite vs masses in smaller countries.

Kim.

Oh Most definately, though the money spent on the Japanese National team is (I believe) far greater than that of other countries too (though I could be wrong). Though I doubt it is proportional.

Though it isn't relevant to the thread, I blieve it is also true that in the smaller organisations, the 'average' member has far more opportunity to become 'elite'...

[Kim Taylor]

I blieve it is also true that in the smaller organisations, the 'average' member has far more opportunity to become 'elite'...

Smaller selection pool, it would also be true that members of a team would be known by a higher percentage of the population than in a large organization. This owuld tend to reduce resentment I suspect.

Kim.

[JSchmidt]

Oh Most definately, though the money spent on the Japanese National team is (I believe) far greater than that of other countries too (though I could be wrong). Though I doubt it is proportional.

I dunno. I suspect the US comes close.

[D'Artagnan]

I dunno. I suspect the US comes close.

To be honest mate, I wouldn't know, I haven't a clue what the Japanese Team spend, or how much of it is the associations money... I am purely guessing.

I was under the impression the US team are, like most countries, largely self-funded (particularly with training expenses - as in travelling to training sessions, accomodation etc.), the money spent by a national team attending a taikai is pretty fractional compared to the individual cost of being a member of that team (in my limited experience of living on a geographically small island). However, for all I know it is the same case with the Japanese team members. Though I hope not, those guys have it hard enough as it is in my opinion.

in addition the delegation sent to the WKC by the Japanese was (from what I saw) much larger than any of the other countries, but again, I have absolutely no idea what money is spent and how.

[Kendoka]

In kendo at least, the ZNKR seems now not to be allowing any of the sensei they send overseas to officiate a grading any higher than 5th dan, whether or not the panel could legally officiate a higher level. Aus Kendo Cships and grading in April - up to 5th dan; HK Taikai also up to 5th dan, Sumi sensei seminar in NZ up to 4th dan. Interesting to see if this happens in Europe. Nth America may be more self-sufficient. b

Europe and the US are a bit different as they have quite a few of their own 7th dans, so they may not need to seek AJKF permission for a "visiting" sensei to assist.

For us in Aus, we have one resident practicing 7 dan, so to examine for above 5th dan, we need help. That help has to approved in advance by the home federation of the visitor. If the visitor is not an examiner at home, then it's unlikely that permission will be provided.

I've been told (by AJKF) that 6th dan is a very important and senior level and should be examined for in Japan.

That's interesting. Is that for the next championships, or previous ones? The change I'm talking about it recent, i.e. this year. Also, the Asian Zone Shinpan Seminars have never had anything more than godogeiko attached. Perhaps as a result of the extra distance needed to travel from Europe, the ZNKR is still supporting high level gradings there. b

AJKF will support 6th dan exams in Aus, but now (I am told) only at occasions when there are sufficient AJKF approved examiners in attendance, like at a FIK Shinpan Seminar. We did that a few years ago in Sydney.

[Steve Bishop]

Hi

Hoping to grade for rokudan in Nagoya this May- hoping since the closing date was last week and earlier than advertised! Anyway the cost to apply is £40 but I don't know about other costs yet.
(If I can't grade then I'll find a balcony to watch from- I'm good at that, eh moosey?)

[Steve Bishop]

Right here it is (as of today) for rokudan in Nippon:

Application fee: 12,600JY (approx 90 GBP) But I have somehow got a discount...maybe it was a deposit?
Fee if successful: 36,000JY (approx 260 GBP)

So thats about 350 GPB. Expensive after all.

[Neil Gendzwill]

That's only a little pricier than rokudan in Canada. It's $40 to test and $500 if you pass, roughly 310 of that funny UK stuff.