Do you practice semeru before doing kihon ..?

[guchido]

they just have to learn to feel it and to demonsrtate that they can apply it.

In kendou, seme is a physical AND psycological pressure done against the oponent/aite.

This is what I meant when I said that there isn't a good practical way of learning it (even though some few exercises do exist).

I don't think that is about "copying" it from a higher grade because it involves more than just standing, stepping, wrists movements and timing.

I agree, this something you cannot copy, you have to assimilate it unconsciously into your technique with practice and the theory just mentioned above.[/QUOTE]

And I'd add that also it's learnt while practicing against lower ranks too

I agree, but seme against higher grades will improve your own much faster, because they mix different types of seme (kurai zume, seme ashi, seme with shinai movements) and you feel how it works when they do that to you.

[Peter West]

I think we get too bogged down in definitions and then, having defined something, isolate it for practice. This kind of question should not need to arise. As a swordsman every moment should be focussed on holding and pressing your enemy. It is not something that you should choose to add, it should be a component of the natural way you move, just like zanshin is not something you choses to add, it should be a natural part of your state of mind when practising, whatever the practice.

Once when I trained kendo I was attending a class that was run by an enthusiastic Nidan (I was shodan at the time, but Yondan Jo and Rokudan Renshi iai). We were doing Kata. I was told that i didn't need to use so much zanshin as this was only kata. How can I not move, or be the way I naturally move and am as a result of my training? How can you cut without seme, once you've learned to apply it, whether it be suburi, ji geiko, shiai, whatever?

The question makes no sense.

[still learning]

As a swordsman every moment should be focussed on holding and pressing your enemy.

In some/many situations it may be said that there are 3 options; Positive, negative and neutral.

I think that Peter is alluding to the idea of having no 'neutral';
the by-product of this being that one has either seme - - or suki [weakness/opening] - - an I am fairly sure that it is a very long time since Peter has displayed a suki-moment during his practice.

IMHO; If one has no suki - - then one has seme........surely.
If you cross swords with someone you should be pressurising at all times.

If one practices employing seme during kihon then this should/will strengthen one's seme during 'real' practce.

[ender84567]

If one practices employing seme during kihon then this should/will strengthen one's seme during 'real' practce.

At our level certainly, but kihon is basic and i often see the 'practice seme during kihon' taught to beginners as step in from toma or kojin to issoku ito and strike. I've found in my travels this leads to some really nasty ingrained bad habits, and is not really seme per se, most beginners just step in, without even bothering to assert the center. While seme is important certainly I am currently a proponent of a piecemeal approach to teaching kihon, and for most people there are more important things they have to nail before they need to be worried about making seme. If you cant even hit men, seme practice does nothing for you. I'd be happy if most people just held kamae as they step in..... getting them to do that is difficult enough without complicating it with things like osaeru.

[Peter West]

getting them to do that is difficult enough without complicating it with things like osaeru.

Of course. My hypothesis was that "seme" is not a separate independent entity that can be practiced, but that it should arise naturally out of good method. This method includes gaining and holding centre, it includes ki-ken-tai no ichi, it includes tameru, it includes kan kyu kyo jaku, it includes meri hari. None of these things can be taught as separate entities, they all have to work together. The question then seems to me to revolve around whether these things could or should be demonstrated individually. In my opinion, and it is only an opinion, they can to a certain extent, and then have to be allowed to absorb into the the general natural movement of the student. We do this by teaching not to drop the kissaki before lifting, using the left hand to lift so that the kissaki presses forward without pushing the right shoulder or exposing kote, and so on and so on.
Of course these details of the nature of correct movement are not in themselves Seme or Tame or Ki ken tai, but they are methods of tuning in to the correct feel and shape of an attack.

If the original question means (and only if it means this) "I know how to press the kissaki forward when I attack and I know how to hold the centre, to the ability of my grade at least, but when I am doing kihon, for example men uchi komi, should I still do those things" then I would say yes, because they should become the habitual method of correct movement shape and will develop, over time, a sense of communication with the enemy.

[ender84567]

I agree with everything you have said peter, once someone is at a certain level they should know to do those things without being told. If you have to announce 'we are practicing men with seme' I feel this only adds confusion to a practice that has a good striation of levels. These are certainly things that each person should be working on, at their own level, but the question is do you practice it, which assumes there is a way to do kihon without seme, I would argue its possible to practice certain elements by focusing on them. I certainly can practice tameru without 'trying' to applying seme if a motodachi is giving an opening, but that doesnt mean that there was no seme :-P. A better question is perhaps do you practice kihon with a focus on seme, (which still begs the further question, is there any 'practice' that can be called not kihon?), and the answer to that is yes, on occasion but it is not an everyday occurrence.

[yoda-waza]

It's a matter of progression in kendo, I think. Ideally you eventually apply seme in kihon practice but when you are new to kendo the physical mechanics of kihon must come first before you can begin to understand how the psychology of seme completes the practice of kihon.

[G-CHAN]

It's a matter of progression in kendo, I think. Ideally you eventually apply seme in kihon practice but when you are new to kendo the physical mechanics of kihon must come first before you can begin to understand how the psychology of seme completes the practice of kihon.

Your avatar explains it all Yoda. In my humble opinion, seme is learned in small increments. First , you're taught the basic mechanics of the swing. Then you learn how to apply the swing from issoku maai. Although beginners don't understand seme, they are in fact being taught the beginnings of seme.

[cesarekim]

We don't even talk about seme until we get to the small cuts such as sashi men or snap kote. We talk about keeping the shinai in the center with the point pointed to our motodachi's tsuki dare or left eye and stepping into our striking area. Depending on the exercise, we may be allowed to step through and cut but it's normally more along the lines of step in, check that you have the correct position and then initiate the cut. When we talk about sashi men or snap kote, we begin to talk about seme and tie it back to the physical positioning of the shinai and the fact that our aite must feel like he will be eating the shinai unless they move. We are told that we should step in, check to see whether we managed to break our aite's kamae or composure and then execute. The verification of the effectiveness of the seme may be short or long but we are taught that once we initiate a movement where we want to create a reaction, it's really pointless to go forward until you have seen whether the first part of the exercise has been successful or not.

I'm never sure what is meant by kihon. For me kihon includes uchikomi. Please ignore the post if this relevant to your practice...