Sandan

[JCM]

Hi All,

Back in training after a bit of a break (part of it healing a fractured arse). Time flew since my Nidan grading and I must start preparing for my Sandan one. I am of course working with my Sempai and so on but I would like to hear your opinions on what makes a Sandan grade, in particular from those who sit at grading panels.

Many thanks,




JCM

[tango]

Take it for what it's worth ... I'm no 6.dan ...

I think, generally speaking, 3.dans should look like very polished 2.dans and be able to demonstrate that they are developing a better understanding of seme. Good posture and good striking, etc. ... I think that just goes without saying ... but otherwise, attacks that are more seme-driven than what one might get with a 2.dan shinsa ... some kind of indication that the 3.dan candidate is actively working at trying to figure out seme to achieve ippon. by definition, I think doing that would also show an attempt to control the opponent.

for me, the most important thing would be trying to tell the judges, "I'm not perfect at this, but it's developing and I'm getting there..."

..something along those lines.
you can pretty much tell when a 2.dan guy has been working on 3.dan-level kendo and when he hasn't....

[R Stroud]

If you can show the judges that you are hitting for a specific reason, be it an opening that presents itself, or one due to your seme/tame, or as a response to an attack from aite, that will go a long way toward helping you show "what the judges are looking for". I think that at 3-dan you should be starting to operate with this level of understanding and not just hit to be hitting. I think this is behind the infamous comment "you are hitting too much" and "you aren't hitting enough". It is not about the amount of hitting but rather the why of hitting. 3-dan candidates should be showing this concept when they test.

For me shinsa is about showing what you can do, and having a plan as to how you are going to do it, so this is a great question, and shows you are planning how to approach the test, rather than simply going out there and seeing what happens.

just my opinion, but hopefully it will help

[Neil Gendzwill]

My understanding is that sandan candidates must show an understanding of opportunity and distance. At that level it is not necessary to control or manage the opponent like a yondan candidate, but you have to either create the point or exploit a good chance given. Scoring several clear ippon is a good thing. As always it's an overall level up so if you don't look any better than the nidan guys the judges just saw it's hard to pass.

Advice one of my guys recently got from the panel (yesterday) is that for sandan, you should show that you have waza under your belt and know how and when to use them. Sandan is the last of the ranks where the requirements are primarily technical.

[Curtis]

Underlying basics is what fails most people. This is followed by application of those basics as expressed by Stroud Sensei. The 4 dan candidates that I did not pass and a couple I nearly did not pass in the shinsa a few days ago showed a lack of attention to their basics. This is clearly seen in their footwork at kamae and men strike. I did not grade the 3 dan, but watched all of them and it was the same.

At kamae the feet were too wide, heel on the floor, rolling back and forth on their foot, and not doing suriashi in general .

[Raffa]

Very interesting thread to me, as I will go to my sandan shinsa this summer at Sportilia (06-06-2010 by the way, none of the readers of this forum will be there? Maybe we can know in person!).
Actually my training is focused on seme, and on the subsequent aite reaction, obviously trying to mantain all the rest correct (not so simple to say you the truth!)...

[JCM]

Thanks All, I guess it's time to get going with it, there are quite a few things I need to polish!. Generally speaking it looks like my ideas about Sandan aren't completely off, which is a good thing. Opportunity and timing is something I was working hard on before my break. It really helps to have this input.

just my opinion, but hopefully it will help

A very valued one if I must say so

[Ronald Gossett]

yeah its a very intresting thread.

[Steve Bishop]

Kirikaeshi (if required)
Spirit and rhythm and receiving is mature i.e. not robust and stiff blocks from hip to hip, rather evidence of timing and guiding your opponents shinai away.

Overall
Fighting Spirit
Begin using kiai, kamae and kensen to create opportunities
Ippon
Waza- do not attempt what you cannot perform however

Your keiko should show evidence of some study as well as practice- a bit nebulous, but when you have done it, then you will understand this.

[Karaken]

Kirikaeshi (if required)
Spirit and rhythm and receiving is mature i.e. not robust and stiff blocks from hip to hip, rather evidence of timing and guiding your opponents shinai away.

Overall
Fighting Spirit
Begin using kiai, kamae and kensen to create opportunities
Ippon
Waza- do not attempt what you cannot perform however

Your keiko should show evidence of some study as well as practice- a bit nebulous, but when you have done it, then you will understand this.

Sorry to say this but it sounds like ikku or shodan level guidance to me. I haven't heard of doing Kirikaeshi as a part of San Dan test either.

[JSchmidt]

Kirikaeshi is required up to 3rd dan in the UK.
As for the rest of your comment...

[Curtis]

Sorry to say this but it sounds like ikku or shodan level guidance to me. I haven't heard of doing Kirikaeshi as a part of San Dan test either.

It was part of the test my wife took for godan in Canada. The evidence of doing a lot of kirikaeshi properly is very clear in the candidates.

[Neil Gendzwill]

As Curtis said, kirikaeshi is required for up to godan when testing in Western Canada. They don't require it in the East.

[Karaken]

As Curtis said, kirikaeshi is required for up to godan when testing in Western Canada. They don't require it in the East.

OK, pardon my ignorance. Where I was in USA, they ask me to do Kirikaeshi for 4kyu test. The next one was for Ikkyu and I don't remember doing it. We learn new things everyday.

[Raffa]

In Italy kirikaeshi is required in shinsa only up to shodan (but sometimes i have see it asked for nidan too).

Coming to the sandan shinsa my "executive plan" actually is more or less the following:
1-stand up from sonkyo with a step forward and a big kiai.
2-Apply seme on the aite, wait until an opening occur and try to seize it. (usually shikake waza, usually men attack)
3-If my seme is not strong enought to create openings in the aite, "try to kill the sword" and then hit OR try an Oji-waza. Try this option also in the case some shikake waza have been already successful.
4-Stay less time as possible in tsuba-zeriai, hit hiki waza only if a very good opportunity is there.

My hiki waza are not very beautiful, so I think i will not try them in a shinsa anyway.

Comments and opinions will be greatly appreciated, thanks.