Seme, from notes.

[hyuna]

Lemme ask you guys something. What does seme feel like, to you, on the receiving end?

I can describe a few different feelings:

When you're a kid, at least a teenaged boy, sometimes you try to get someone to flinch. You move like you're going to punch them, or make as though to throw a ball at them. Most people probably know what I'm talking about. So one feeling is like being on the receiving end of that. It's like being startled, but not exactly, because there is an aggressive undercurrent to it. Sometimes people move in aggressively and sharply, and it feels like that to me.

A second feeling is like when someone is trying to start a fight with you and they shove you. I find some people are very aggressive with their kensen and movement, and I feel like they are trying to goad me into something. It isn't a good analogy because it doesn't make me angry or threatened in the same way, but it is the best example that I can think of, offhand.

Another feeling is like when i am playing Tetris or some other video game and i just got to the limit of my ability and the pieces are falling a little too fast for me but i'm trying and i'm rushing rushing rushing trying to keep up and damnit why'd i drop that piece there and and i can't quite get ahead of the curve, i'm just a little bit behind on each piece, can't quite get the piece all the way to the right spot and the mistakes keep piling up and and and and omg omg omg ahhhhhhhh. Dang, lost again. So there is a little more adrenaline in that analogy, but it is kind of like that.

But I generally don't really feel any of that from the strongest players that I've played. The feeling from their seme is very difficult to put into words. It doesn't feel aggressive like those other feelings, and I don't think I have ever experienced a feeling like it in anything else that I have done. It is like a wall moving slowly toward you. You want to move away from it, but you find whenever you try to move away you have actually moved closer to it. And then the wall keeps coming. So what happens is that I don't feel threatened, and I try to move to take an advantage. But then I find that my position is now worse for some reason. I feel like I am in control of how I move, it's just that nothing I try works. And as long as I can keep in control of the distance, I don't necessarily feel particularly threatened. But the wall keeps coming and eventually I either run out of space, or I run out of patience and act from frustration because nothing I am trying helps, or I lose my focus. I want to say it feels stifling, but it doesn't, because I never feel out of control in this situation. I suppose it feels like a puzzle that I believe I have the solution for, but the solution never works. It's a peculiar feeling of being both in and out of control.

[Halcyon]

And as long as I can keep in control of the distance, I don't necessarily feel particularly threatened. But the wall keeps coming and eventually I either run out of space, or I run out of patience and act from frustration because nothing I am trying helps, or I lose my focus.

This is brilliant. Probably the best description of high-level seme that I've read.

[JSchmidt]

And as long as I can keep in control of the distance, I don't necessarily feel particularly threatened. But the wall keeps coming and eventually I either run out of space, or I run out of patience and act from frustration because nothing I am trying helps, or I lose my focus. I want to say it feels stifling, but it doesn't, because I never feel out of control in this situation. I suppose it feels like a puzzle that I believe I have the solution for, but the solution never works. It's a peculiar feeling of being both in and out of control.

This one I hate, especially against the older and less maneuverable guys. They'll close into *distance* and make sure to cover themselves as they move in and then position themselves in such a way that your options are limited and when you do take those options, they are ready (Usually with a kaeshi-do). Then when you get frustrated and your timing goes away, they can easily pick you off with the debana. The solution is to be good enough to be a threat before they can close in as you'll get more space and time to work with.

[Karaken]

There are many different type of seme I can see from the receiving end. When you do Jigeiko with visiting senseis, they normally wait for you in the beginning so you don't normally feel overwhelming seme sensation but if you get close to hit him, all of a sudden his kamae changes ( Another gear ? ) and you start to feel his seme as he gets ready to hit you. You know he's coming and you can't even breathe.
The best seme I feel is during the tournament. Regardless of your rank, anyone can defeat anyone. So, you can feel the maximum seme coming from your opponent. One past US champion (7th dan) had really strong seme. His Ki was so strong as if he's telling me "You are dead already!". Some don't have it that strong, they make you wonder what is happening and make you lose your focus and/or patience. This is not always the case but, imo, younger senseis tend to have stronger seme whereas older senseis have more tricky trapping, "here's my kote, hit me" type seme that makes you wonder "Is this a real opening? Can this be really that easy? It's probably a trap, I shouldn't go there? Well, nothing else is open, let's try it real fast... Boom! Kote-nuki-men". Here is a question I asked a long time ago and I don't think anyone dignified my question with an answer. "Is no seme also a type of seme?"

[Raffa]

....... "Is no seme also a type of seme?"....

Logic says no....
From the little it seems I have understand, with seme you can:
1-Force an opening in the aite defense
2-Or force an attack from the aite.

If you don't feel nothing maybe you are in the bad side of case 2...

[Charlie]

Hmm what *is* no seme? When the opponent, that can use seme, withdraws his seme or seems to relax the seme - but it's a trap?

[tango]

The solution is to be good enough to be a threat before they can close in as you'll get more space and time to work with.

This is the hard part for me (maybe everybody) against more experienced players..

[tango]

Here is a question I asked a long time ago and I don't think anyone dignified my question with an answer. "Is no seme also a type of seme?"

Taking a stab at this, I think against higher ranked guys (sensei-level), the idea of "no seme" isn't really there... I think they are always using seme (regardless of whether they attack, counter-attack, or just let us hit them)... I think it is our perception that they are "not applying any seme" when in reality they are...

I guess I would say, "Yes, 'no seme' is seme, but with the higher ranked guys, I think they are always applying seme"...

[Karaken]

Taking a stab at this, I think against higher ranked guys (sensei-level), the idea of "no seme" isn't really there... I think they are always using seme (regardless of whether they attack, counter-attack, or just let us hit them)... I think it is our perception that they are "not applying any seme" when in reality they are...

I guess I would say, "Yes, 'no seme' is seme, but with the higher ranked guys, I think they are always applying seme"...

Yes I agree. I was refering to 7or 8th dan visiting senseis who seems to have no seme sometimes. But also sometimes I purposely do not pressure my opponent and see what they do. This seemingly irritates many young students, makes them very uncomfortable as I was with high level senseis. That's why I'm questioning "Is absolutely NO seme still a seme?" Because in my book, a seme is what makes your opponent uncomfortable enough to do things they wouldn't do otherwise.

[LowFatMat]

"Is no seme also a type of seme?"

You can ramp up the seme to intimidate an opponent, or tone it down either to give a less experienced student the opportunity to practise or to control the pace, but surely no seme is just two blokes standing around with sticks.


or women. Sorry girls.

[Karaken]

You can ramp up the seme to intimidate an opponent, or tone it down either to give a less experienced student the opportunity to practise or to control the pace, but surely no seme is just two blokes standing around with sticks.


or women. Sorry girls.

Certainly I agree in that setting but what about during the tournament where everyone expects strongest seme? If I put absolutely no pressure intentionally, would it be considered seme? Has anyone done this in a torny?

[Charlie]

In the first kata, both sides approach with seme.

Then, shidachi relaxes his seme just a little, prompting uchidachi to attack - but it's a trap.

Is this "no seme?"

[Neil Gendzwill]

Have you heard the phrases "pulling seme" and "pushing seme"? What makes you think seme is always forward?

[Karaken]

Have you heard the phrases "pulling seme" and "pushing seme"? What makes you think seme is always forward?

Well, this could be as close as what I was getting at. Neil, can you elaborate more or point me to place where I can get some more info ( Pulling & Pushing seme )?

[Neil Gendzwill]

It's been discussed here before. But you know that feeling like some old sensei is reading your mind and knows what you will do before you do? Pulling.