In Defense of Jodan

[JSchmidt]

I'm going just on my experience playing a bit of jodan, plus that of a handful of people I've played. Maybe someone more experienced with the kamae like Jakob will disagree but... Having your hands over your head and having to constantly target that way just makes the jodan guy a little less mobile. I'm sure the specialists move very well indeed. But on the whole, when you move well against them there seems to be this feeling of "just hold still, dammit, so I can swat you".

In general, I agree. The higher center of gravity and in general desire for a longer build-up can make a mobile opponent more difficult to fight against. On the other hand, if the jodan fighter picks up the timing of your movement, you're toast.

As for kasumi, I consider it a very defensive posture and any attacks other than against my left kote, will create huge openings for me to attack against, especially with morote-kote.

Finally..for the person who considered 'body-checks' to be the best way, should consider playing football or hockey instead. You'd be more at home there.

[The great I AM]

For me, fighting Jodan, as much as fighting chudan is also, is about distance management and fooling the guy in front of you. A lot of what I do is around making the guy unsure if he will reach me (I do appreciate that this is easier for someone my size, but I think that effective oji waza can form a kind of substitute here) so that they don't have total confidence to attack. Then I pound them.

That, and my katate kote is frankly awesome now, and people never expect ME to do katate kote against jodan, and not from to-ma either...

[b8amack]

I had to do some thread hunting to discover what kasumi was. Haven't ever seen anyone use that, before, personally. It does seem like it would be frustrating. As for kaeshi-do, that left side is still open, and still a valid target, I thought.

[D'Artagnan]

I usually make a kamae where I point my kensen at their right kote (not their left) and kinda cross my hands, so the right is on centre and left is off centre to my left. I think this is what lots of people call 'kasumi' but I don't know if it is the same, as my version is somewhat extreme. I never stop moving, particularly to the right (opponent's left, where he is blind sided by his left arm), though I mix it up. Also, most Jodan (though I stress this is most, and not 'all'), like Nito-players aren't very good at hikiwaza, so I use hikiwaza alot. I think all of the Ippon I have made against Jodan players have been either hidari-gote, or hiki-men. I am not very good at tsuki, but I should use it more, or at least threaten it more...

[xvikingx]

A few things that work for me.

-Katate-tsuki if my opponent is feeling comfortable. I think alot of people just throw this out there but I don't because if you miss/come up short/ etc. he's got you by the short hairs.
- Come in with a high seigan covering my kote and men(sort of), and if my opponent doesn't throw out a strike defensively thinking I'm closing the distance just to get into tsuba-zeriai, I gyaku-do. Won't score but makes them feel exposed and will sometimes bring their left kote forward and out.
- Not sure how to describe this other than I go for shomen over their kamae/strike. If I go for shomen my opponent will always try for men or kote feeling confident that their men is safe, which it would be if they didn't go for men/kote. So if I aim above my opponents kamae, in a sense going over his shinai, I cut through whatever he throws and am able to hit men. Most of the time it ends up being deep because they are also coming in but you just adjust your fumikomi. The key is to cut big, like how Teramoto cuts over his opponents; if done with a smaller faster cut the opposite happens and my opponent deflects my strike with his strike or downward moving kote. I don't really know how to put this into words; I don't think it counts as kiriotoshi.
- Suri-age men usually works pretty well. Again this will end up being deep because your opponent will be coming in at you, so you need to adjust your fumikomi or even go off to the left.

Haven't been here in months. Alright back to work.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think all of the Ippon I have made against Jodan players have been either hidari-gote, or hiki-men.

Debana men works for me. They're usually expecting the kote. Kasumi is not as locked up as you think once you get used to it.

[Mr Softee]

JSchmit, I never said its the best way. For my skill set it has been the most effective way for me so far. I should have typed I use a extra strong tai-atari after a strike to make my opponent anticipate the hit and then go for a quick kote.

I haven't been able to play much versus jodan so I have been forced to learn in matches, excuse me if its not pretty but what can a fellow do?

[Charlie]

I like fighting jodan fighters, but I have an advantage here: I have been training with a guy that's been learning jodan the last five years or so, so as he was coming up I learned how to fight against this kamae. Not saying I always excel at it, mind you!

I also take the kata #5 kamae and kasumi and I also have some luck with kasumi against kote or men. Other tactics I like:

-Keep moving, obviously! Left and right.
-I chose punish kote for the poll, but I like to go after one and then switch to the other or men
-Tsuki-men
-Try to duplicate in shinai kendo the fifth kata, so men-suriage-men

FWIW!

[FastKendo]

Please explain to me where the jodan fighters right hand go after cutting men...and then explain how you do men-kaeshi-do.

well..some jodan players are not really cover his "do" with his right hand. If we look at Chiba sensei's jodan video tutorial, his right hand pulled to his waist just like some karateka do. Since men gaeshi do is a counter attack move, we're already closer to our opponent when hitting "do". And when the jodan player hitting men, his left arm is a bit streched and his body will follow facing his right side a litle bit so we'll actually hit his front "do". Anyway, since I'm still a beginner, I'd like to hear your thought.

[Shinsengumi77]

... And when the jodan player hitting men, his left arm is a bit streched and his body will follow facing his right side a litle bit so we'll actually hit his front "do". Anyway, since I'm still a beginner, I'd like to hear your thought.

Sorry to break it to you, but the front of the do dai is not a valid target area. The (right) side (which is usually covered by the jodanka's right hand/ arm) is the target. Of course, gyaku do is still an option.

[FastKendo]

Sorry to break it to you, but the front of the do dai is not a valid target area. The (right) side (which is usually covered by the jodanka's right hand/ arm) is the target. Of course, gyaku do is still an option.

yes, I'm a bit concern about that too. Looking at jodan's posture while striking men, naturaly men gaeshi migi do looks like not a good idea. As for gyaku do, I think I need to working on that, thanks

[b8amack]

I've been hit on the hand by more than a few people who forget themselves and go for do. My fault for being slow.

[Gideon]

I had to do some thread hunting to discover what kasumi was. Haven't ever seen anyone use that, before, personally.

It seems like Asaoka sensei used something similar, very, very briefly in setting up the suriage... I'm not sure one would call it an actual kamae or just something to open up a target.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcRDd7mebgk

[The great I AM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcRDd7mebgk

heh heh heh....

[FastKendo]

It seems like Asaoka sensei used something similar, very, very briefly in setting up the suriage... I'm not sure one would call it an actual kamae or just something to open up a target.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcRDd7mebgk

Cool!! the jodan player looks embarrassed at the end..