Behaving Ourselves

[Kokoro777]

With lots of new members in our club in recent months, including myself, comments have been made by the senior grades regarding the lack of proper etiquette in the dojo. Everything from answering mobile phones, beginning practise before permission has been given (potentially dangerous), swigging from drinks bottles whilst swaggering around the dojo, 'thunder-clap' hakama sabaki and far worse in my opinion, responding to instruction/correction with "Well, Sensei XXX says its done like this not like that" which I personally find very rude and undermining of seniority. Most of us don't even know how to pass by each other politely etc.

It struck me that we didn't have a definitive source of appropriate etiquette for an Iai dojo and I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction or give me some suggestions so I can put an etiquette guide together for us all.

[atgm]

Your sensei or most senior member. What he says is law.

Not very democratic, but martial arts aren't.

Edit: And if people aren't mature enough to follow some rules in a dojo, then they're probably not mature enough to do iai.

[Kokoro777]

I agree that what 'Sensei' does and says is law, but the problem is that in the UK its hard to impose a behaviour upon people, when those same behaviours are deemed perfectly appropriate in many other avenues of life. At worst, traditional dojo etiquette is seen as quaint, out-of-date and vaguely silly. "So what if I walk directly in front of a fellow dojo member?" would be the attitude. I suppose it reflects our society's attitudes in general. Last week I saw one person staring, in bovine bewilderment, into space, yawning widely whilst a very senior visiting Sensei was imparting his wisdom to us and I thought it was rude and disrespectful. I think if someone in the dojo said "You're welcome to drink that outside the dojo" or "Turn your phone off in here" they'd just get a funny look at best or give some back chat-"I'm rehydrating myself" or "I'm expecting an important call".

So I thought a Dojo Etiquette guide, given to everyone, might just be enough to make people think about what they're doing and if its appropriate rather than a heavy handed approach which may be confrontational and counter-productive.

[suneohair]

its sad to say there are people like that. maybe not intentionally, more like being insensitive. funny, first thing i was thought in kendo was respect. guess its not the case with others.

[atgm]

I fail to see how a written version of the rules would somehow impress them more than the spoken version of the rules. There's a basic misunderstanding on their part (that etiquette is unnecessary) and they need to fix it.

[b8amack]

With lots of new members in our club in recent months, including myself, comments have been made by the senior grades regarding the lack of proper etiquette in the dojo. Everything from answering mobile phones, beginning practise before permission has been given (potentially dangerous), swigging from drinks bottles whilst swaggering around the dojo, 'thunder-clap' hakama sabaki and far worse in my opinion, responding to instruction/correction with "Well, Sensei XXX says its done like this not like that" which I personally find very rude and undermining of seniority. Most of us don't even know how to pass by each other politely etc.

It struck me that we didn't have a definitive source of appropriate etiquette for an Iai dojo and I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction or give me some suggestions so I can put an etiquette guide together for us all.

If you're a new member, then putting together an etiquette guide is poor etiquette.

[Wookiesmurf]

If you're a new member, then putting together an etiquette guide is poor etiquette.

I agree. Focus on yourself and your own training until you've been around long enough to have some pull in the dojo.

[Oroshi]

These people will either fix their behaviour or quit before too long. Depending on the sensei, they may even be invited to leave. As b8amack says, it's not your responsibility.

Focus on your own behaviour instead. Good reigi means you have better iaido, and in addition seniors will take note of your effort and be more willing to spend time teaching you. People who refuse to improve their conduct instead get ignored, their training stagnates, and they quit. End of problem.

[rfoxmich]

..most likely quit... after all they only came there to learn some nifty moves, and now they see it's real work.

[pgsmith]

What you are proposing is the job of the sempai. The more senior members of the dojo are supposed to step up and straighten out any etiquette problems such as you are describing. If they are not doing this, there are deeper problems. The fact that you didn't know that you would be out of line doing this yourself indicates that you don't have the requisite knowledge to do what you were originally proposing.

[MikeW]

Well I think it is a good idea to have a written copy of dojo rules, terms and an explanation of reiho for beginners personally. I always hand out a sheet to new students that go over the basics. Reiho is the foundation of martial arts and it is part of what makes it a way of life instead of just a fight (IMHO). That said, I agree that this is better done (or at least overseen) by a senpai/sensei and not by a beginner. More because the other beginners will be more likely to take it to heart if an 'authoritative' person in the dojo is handing down the rules as opposed to someone they might see as an equal, if you follow my drift. In the western world you're right that our culture is not based on traditional Japanese behaviors and that can create conflicts in the dojo. People that are serious about martial arts will accept this and learn correct behavior if given the opportunity. But even this most basic behavior is foreign to many (most) western students and they do need to be educated. This doesn't need to be a detailed step by step sort of thing, just an outline of basic reiho.

[ghostdancer]

With lots of new members in our club in recent months, including myself, comments have been made by the senior grades regarding the lack of proper etiquette in the dojo. Everything from answering mobile phones, beginning practise before permission has been given (potentially dangerous), swigging from drinks bottles whilst swaggering around the dojo, 'thunder-clap' hakama sabaki and far worse in my opinion, responding to instruction/correction with "Well, Sensei XXX says its done like this not like that" which I personally find very rude and undermining of seniority. Most of us don't even know how to pass by each other politely etc.

It struck me that we didn't have a definitive source of appropriate etiquette for an Iai dojo and I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction or give me some suggestions so I can put an etiquette guide together for us all.

i am afraid to say you are making the assumption that they are capable of

(a) reading the guide or
(b) understanding it or
(c) giving a toss

you cant put it were it wont go

leave it to your senior club members

[shred_lord]

I agree that what 'Sensei' does and says is law, but the problem is that in the UK its hard to impose a behaviour upon people, when those same behaviours are deemed perfectly appropriate in many other avenues of life. At worst, traditional dojo etiquette is seen as quaint, out-of-date and vaguely silly. "So what if I walk directly in front of a fellow dojo member?" would be the attitude. I suppose it reflects our society's attitudes in general. Last week I saw one person staring, in bovine bewilderment, into space, yawning widely whilst a very senior visiting Sensei was imparting his wisdom to us and I thought it was rude and disrespectful. I think if someone in the dojo said "You're welcome to drink that outside the dojo" or "Turn your phone off in here" they'd just get a funny look at best or give some back chat-"I'm rehydrating myself" or "I'm expecting an important call".

So I thought a Dojo Etiquette guide, given to everyone, might just be enough to make people think about what they're doing and if its appropriate rather than a heavy handed approach which may be confrontational and counter-productive.

I have no such problem with enforcing etiquette in the dojo (also in the UK). I tell them to do, or not do something and they follow my instruction. Simple as. You seem to have a low opinion of your Kohai.

Edit: Just to point out the this is at the Dojo I teach.

[Anime12478]

I think I can briefly chime in on this (though I really should be working on stuff).

It can sometimes help if you can really give them a reason why they need to follow the general etiquette rules. Some people respond to instructions pretty well and others might want to know why they are doing what they are doing before things start to "click." Whether it's a safety issue, common sense or something in the context of the Japanese culture (or whatever culture your activity belongs to), putting some meaning behind something other than telling others to "just do it" allows me to understand the instructions better or, in rare cases, puts them higher on the respect-o-meter for me.

Other than that, you should already know the disciplinary process...

[Neil Gendzwill]

This is the downfall of iaido - in kendo, we can be a lot, urm, clearer in our corrections of these problems...