Kendo & Iaido

[PrinceOfori]

Hi
I have been doing kendo for about a year now and I have recently thought about taking Iaido whilst continuing with kendo. What I wanted to know is whether this could effect my kendo in anyway and if it does, should I even try Iaido at all. I began my kendo late(1 week before my 16th birthday) would starting Iaido a few months before my 17th make my Iai worse?

On a different note, is it common to have Kendoka practising both Iai and Kendo?

Thanks
Prince

[KawazoeTamaki]

It doesn't seem like a rare practice..
I've seen many instructors and/or yudansha with couple of dan in both Kendo and Iaido

[PrinceOfori]

thanks for the reply would like to hear from more people

[ghostdancer]

am a total beginner in both , my sensei say that they compliment each other in so many ways

as far as the age question goes there aint one
with out being offensive you are relatively young to take up either
certainly not to old you have got years to get less bad at both just enjoy

both are so deep just have fum

i am 50 BTW stated only a few years go

[PrinceOfori]

Thanks alot for this its nice to know that you are never to old to start either art

[hl1978]

Kendo will make your iaido better, and iaido will make your kendo better. Depending on who you ask, they might in fact be considered the same art....

Seitei iaido doesn't contradict anything you will learn in kendo. Iaido is not for everyone though, but the training methodology reqiures more thought early on than what you will find in kendo when it comes to listening to your own body. If you can find an instructor who teaches both and links the two together you will be in better shape as well. Just don't get caught up in the waza as the waza themselves are not what will improve your kendo and many of them are not permited in modern day kendo.

[JSchmidt]

My recommendation is that you wait until at least shodan in kendo before starting iaido. Some of the techniques are, on the surface, opposite of eachother and having a reasonable understanding of the basics in kendo., will make the transition less confusing.
Having said that, it's not impossible to learn both at the same time, but there will be some additional confusion and frustration added on top.

[0746]

I did a bit of Iaido after my first year of kendo as well (last year). I only got up to my third iai kata so it was brief but soon found myself having no time for it. From my personal experience, I think it helped a little bit. I experienced a few more things about posture, etiquette, breathing and more importantly, the importance of practicing. I don't think I found anything that would influence my kendo in a negative way. In fact, I am planning to get back to it in a year when I'll have a bit more time.

[Kokoro777]

Perhaps controversially, I view both disciplines as, at best, opposite sides of the same coin and at worst, opposite sides of different currencies! In Kendo there is the feeling of using a sword but the way the bamboo stave is wielded and handled is very different to the way a katana is used. Kendo is much more physical and cardiovascular than Iai and I'd suggest any resemblance is tenuous to say the least. In Iai the feeling is of cutting an opponent but of course there is none and so the swordsman doesn't experience the feedback of resistance as his weapon meets its target and of course there's chiburi and noto which is absent from Kendo.. Also Iai is a far more introspective and solitary discipline than Kendo, sometimes requiring a great deal of spirit to even motivate yourself to practise etc etc

Do they compliment each other or possibly hinder each other? I think you could equally ask if playing football or swimming will have a positive of negative effect on your Kendo. Since both disciplines originated in a similar social and historical environment I'd suggest there is unlikely to be a detrimental effect of one over the other but again I wouldn't want to suggest they will compliment each other either-I think they're just so different.

[hl1978]

Perhaps controversially, I view both disciplines as, at best, opposite sides of the same coin and at worst, opposite sides of different currencies! In Kendo there is the feeling of using a sword but the way the bamboo stave is wielded and handled is very different to the way a katana is used. Kendo is much more physical and cardiovascular than Iai and I'd suggest any resemblance is tenuous to say the least. In Iai the feeling is of cutting an opponent but of course there is none and so the swordsman doesn't experience the feedback of resistance as his weapon meets its target and of course there's chiburi and noto which is absent from Kendo.. Also Iai is a far more introspective and solitary discipline than Kendo, sometimes requiring a great deal of spirit to even motivate yourself to practise etc etc

Do they compliment each other or possibly hinder each other? I think you could equally ask if playing football or swimming will have a positive of negative effect on your Kendo. Since both disciplines originated in a similar social and historical environment I'd suggest there is unlikely to be a detrimental effect of one over the other but again I wouldn't want to suggest they will compliment each other either-I think they're just so different.

deleted

[Whitefire]

I started both within a week of each other, I am now nidan in both.
I am lucky enough to have an Iai teacher who understands which bits I am getting wrong because of Kendo and which bits I am better at.
There are differences, but I think that in the beginning it doesn't matter as much, and by the time it does matter you should have the discipline and control to switch from one to another.

In my experience, I make the most progress when I realise why my Iai and Kendo faults are linked.

Roger

[hl1978]

Perhaps controversially, I view both disciplines as, at best, opposite sides of the same coin and at worst, opposite sides of different currencies! In Kendo there is the feeling of using a sword but the way the bamboo stave is wielded and handled is very different to the way a katana is used. Kendo is much more physical and cardiovascular than Iai and I'd suggest any resemblance is tenuous to say the least. In Iai the feeling is of cutting an opponent but of course there is none and so the swordsman doesn't experience the feedback of resistance as his weapon meets its target and of course there's chiburi and noto which is absent from Kendo.. Also Iai is a far more introspective and solitary discipline than Kendo, sometimes requiring a great deal of spirit to even motivate yourself to practise etc etc

Do they compliment each other or possibly hinder each other? I think you could equally ask if playing football or swimming will have a positive of negative effect on your Kendo. Since both disciplines originated in a similar social and historical environment I'd suggest there is unlikely to be a detrimental effect of one over the other but again I wouldn't want to suggest they will compliment each other either-I think they're just so different.

It depends on how you are taught iaido, how you practice it, and what you are focusing on in your training.

If you are only looking at waza or "externally", of course you can say there are differences. If you are practicing iaido without test cutting (want to learn the importance of hasuji? thats a very quick way to have an understanding, plus you may release that tenouchi may become a power transfer/generation tool rather than only a way of stopping a shinai), preforming the partnered kata, or practicing solo kata with a partner for bunkai or resistance exercises they may be different. If you practice your kendo without a push/pull motion, it does tend to be less painfull for your opponent, however its not the arms which should be making the push/pull.

Now if you are looking at things from a mental perspective they are very similiar, in terms of concepts. A simple example: you are always going forwards into your opponent, even when the body is going backwards. This is true both of your cuts in terms of inputting power into your opponent as well as forward pressure experienced as seme and kizeme. If you can exhibit that in your iaido (or kendo kata) you should be able to express it in your ji-geiko as well. Iaido does provide an added benefit due to the speed it is practiced. You have the think and listen with is going on in your own body which enables you to figure out what you are doing correctly and incorrectly.


If you are looking at them from a body mechanics perspective they are quite similar as well. To give some examples (there are many many more):

Seitei mae:
1) The mechanic for the push forwards prior to kirioshi is really no different than basic kendo footwork/cutting men, yet beginners in kendo and iaido both do it wrong in the same exact manner. How well you can do it in iaido should have a direct correlation to how well you understand the mechanic in kendo and vice versa. The fact that you are on the knees makes it easier to figure out if you are preforming okuri-ashi correctly, due to the added resistance.

2) The mechanic used when switched the feet, is similar to how one recieves a tai atari strike (assuming you don't want to unbalance the other guy when recieving), in that you are working on how to commit your weight and keep forwards pressure. I can go into more depth on this topic later if people are interested.

Seitei tsuka-ate: the mechanic utilized to power the tsuka-gashira strike is the same one as what is used to power a good tai-atari. After all its more than just the feet pushing off the ground right?

Seitei morote-tsuki: the mechanic for tsuki is not only one possible way to take the center and manipulate your opponents kamae, but the same mechanic used to power men. This is a reference not only to the hands, but the rest of the body. Its also a similar mechanic to what powers your cuts as well since if you look at the "middle" and legs, men, tsuki, and tai atari are all powered in more or less the same way.

Now if you are lucky to have an instructor who teaches both kendo and iaido, they might point out some of this stuff to you. The japanese teaching methodology however tends to only explicitly show you the first few steps and you are left to your own devices to figure the rest out yourself.

In my experience, I make the most progress when I realise why my Iai and Kendo faults are linked.

Roger

I think you hit on something big there.

[dillon]

I do both. I started kendo 3 years ago at age 32. and iaido last September. With 2.5 years of kendo already under my belt when I started iaido, I didn't have trouble adapting to the basic footwork and movements. I feel that in turn iaido has allowed me to bring a freer movement back into kendo (coincidentally since starting iaido my kendo sensei started teaching us how to move off the centre line so it all tied together... I have different sensei for each art to be clear). When I moved up from using a bokuto to an iaito though, it felt like I had to relearn how to cut and so far I don't think I'm at the point where I can say that I'm bring better cutting back into kendo, but it's still early days.

[Kokoro777]

Very interesting perspectives. I almost want to try Kendo again-almost!

[PrinceOfori]

Thank you all for such amazing responses i think i will start iai i would like to know what iai is like for the english members.