Nazi flags and kobudo?

**Roberto** · 25th August 2010, 02:31 PM

I'm an avarage American, Aden

Everyone!

As Ikkyu mentioned, Mexico had a participation during the WW2. Not to mention that also there is the rumor that the Yankees actually sunk the oil ships, and the Germans were to blame for that. Anyway, I dunnot lots of things about that, and I'm not pointing to any German nor Yankee at all.
Here in Mexico was also discrimination against Italian and German descendants, painting the hakenkrauze (or whatever is written) on the doors of their houses. That happened to my grandma's family and some friends.

I've seen people using the Nazi symbol on shirts and drawings, but generally with low cultural level people, who think that is cool and kind of badass looking... Funnier will be that they would be the first to be taken by the nazi just because of their skin color (I'm not racist, but I'm pointing about the fact that they're ignoring all that bullshit about how the supreme race is supoused to look like).

About Kobushindo, I had some mailing with one guy who was doing promotion of this. Actually I sent a P. M to Scott (you ignored me T_T.. or it never get into your P.M box), mentioning to him that their sensei actually "teaches" Niten Ichi Ryu, what seemed suspicious since in Mexico AFAIK there isn't anyone teaching it...
He said that his teacher lived in Japan and trained Niten in the militia there, and he doesn't want to talk about that much because he "considers that is to make big talking about who he is"... He want's to be "humble" apparently.

Zaga-X · 7th September 2010, 04:11 AM

"The infamous Kobushindo" ultra lol.

The internet could be awesome no dude abou it...

Hi to everyone my name is Alejandro Zamorano García (I introduce myself with my name not my nick) and i member of Kobushindo since two and a half years, and i'm the producer of the videos of Kobushindo in the web and the person that uploaded (Yes even the polemic one).

First than nothing i expect that my english is god enought to express myself corerctly if not sorry for that.

I'm here only for some reasons, the first is talk about us from my PERSONAL view, i´m not going to talk for kobushindo or Sensei even if in fact gonna talk about them in a "only-one-try" to make some aspects of us more clear for some of you guys and the people that could recieve a wrong menssage about us only for this topic. I SPEAK FOR MYSELF.

Ok i'm gonna talk in a general way try to answer to anyone of you guys.

-About Kriegsmarine and comando training:

Obiously i made two mistakes here, and only me, have responsability in this point, i never pretend offense anyone, and the other mistake that i was is that yes, obviously my answer about this question in youtube was imprecise, this not fully a random item, i only pretend avoid a major discussión about it (Obviusly only provoque the oposed) Sensei as many persons that was in military afairs that i personally know or at least see it, EVEN FROM ALLIATED FORCES have some sympathy for all the German millitary affair, i made a mistake about the open mind of the "First World" countrys about this question, i' not gonna iniciated a discusion about the Nazi stuff (Could it be neverending and i really don't care) but i only gonna say somethigs about it.
A kriegsmarine Flag don't have racist implications this is a modern stigma, the Nazi army haved, legions of many contrys and races (Much of this countries now cover this)
The Nazis yes, commited a series of true crimes for mankind, and atrocities, as genocide and etnicall things, specially under command of Himmler the Gestapo lider.

About the preferences of Sensei about the Nazi affair you know what? i'm not a qualify person to judge this, since i'm not live the thigs that he lived or knows what they know(One more time i'm not gonna talk a lot of it or another very different disscusión beginns here) and i pretty sure that none of you can do it.
Obiously we lived in a freeworld, and each person can express their opinión about this, i understand that many persons have their reasons for hate that symbolls but this reasons and us is not the same stuff since WER'E NOT, a nazi millitia or even a millitia of any kind.

The comando camp is a vivential and very full experience that i pretend show in this video, about militians forms tactics, first aids, rescue a fallen comrade, the use of katana from a militar perpective (thing that REALLY EXIST AND YOU CAN SERACH ABOUT IT) and very etc's that were "shaded" for the shoots that use the flag, about other video similar that some of you cited here, yes, it's only a test of shoots and edition techniques and the video CREARLY SAY THAT ("artistic sequence recorded in the commando camp"). Result weird to you see katana with a millitar uniform? i really don't know the reason, in WW2 was a very common way, many Ally soldiers, even collected this swords and take them home as trophys of war. At this point I remeber you guys that japan was a part of the axis (Eje) forces, and if the argument of one of yous is so strong as pretend i really surprised that even could see japanese thing's with some sympathy, after all, the Japanese army haved prisioners camps in the ocean pacific very fully of australian and Britanic forces...

That's all that i going to say about that, on more time im sorry if anyone was offense with the flag...

- About Kobushindo:

Kobushindo is a group of martial arts efectively of various japanese martial arts that could be for simplify functions resumed in two principal things: Kenjutsu an Karate Shotokan (We aboard the Kobudo as a consequence of Karate, for example the same kata but using a Jo, or Bo or Nunchaku).

- About Sensei an other facts and questions, and specially cleared some things than some of you say it before:

Sensei is a 59 old year man, that have about 30 years of training in this martial systems, in the period of the president Lopez Portillo was in charge he (by the way a fan of very japanese things, that reallized many tratades with japan) he served in "La armada de Mexico" (Marines) and was selected for take lessons for more than one Japanese Sensei, some of the names already cited here before in his Mexican HQ, after that as efectively is not a "official, presence" of Nitten in Mexico, he past their final tests in Japan (As we gonna have to do in this momment if we pretend have some nitten acreditation, at least for now), and have some relations with senseis and partners, and was in Japan headquarters for some times (Yes robeto, in the Self defence forces, because Japan don't have an extensive Military forces).

Some of you looks surprised about the fact that are to many systems in kobushindo an only one Sensei, well, i don't know how is your personal life guys, but try thing how could it be if yours was a person that live in barracs, and in peaceful times recieve a pay for month only for train and train and train, military stuff and martial arts, now, many of this styles have many things in common.

About the "Group" of Nitten: question that have recieved two times before, yo know? i don't really know and i dont't really sure that sensei knows, because he recived orders you know? the order was train with this guys to the end, and in the army and order isn't questioned, but i know that Iito Urazawa, belongs to the 52th Generation of "Suke" Nitten in japan and for some morbid guy you can search a pic of Tsunanori sakakura, the internet is full of pics of this Sensei, and at leats in Mexico is very know as the introductor of nippon kempo in mexico.

At this poin i remarked the point that i' personally don't an expert of this Groups lienneages etc. as some of you guys semms to be or pretend, and my truly respect to you if is the case but even so, i seriously doubt that you know all the japanese Senseis around the world especially about Senseis that not work for general public instead for some kind of military exchanged an have some age when sensei was a young man i mean many years ago.

Other thing, Sensei i repeat is 59 years old person that are not very "involved" with this digital world, i seriouly doubt that some pics of his japan stance exits, but yes there are pics of his squad and his group of training, pics that obiously I'M NOT GONNA ASK HIM only for i can scan in a try to convice some guys that not gonna come here to enter kobushindo or at least for see for yourselves, the trainning and other aspects, for build a true idea about us, and not for only a youtube's video. About this, i see a lot of videos in the web and maybe have some opinion oh that but you know? at least I prefer don't judge any style without really have at least a strong idea of how really is and i, from kobushindo and before kobushindo have learn some little things about respect and self-respect.

In this aspect if you guys are VERY EXPERTS in the history or the "groups" or even kenjutsu, god for you, maybe more than i? great for you, but if is the case and maybe i'm not the great expert than you are, i actually have one thing:MARTIAL CRITERIUM, i'm not a 16 years old boy than was stunned with some fancy moves with a sword, i'm a person that i trained before other martial styles, some for a ver little period and other for an extensive one (and after that i judg the style in question), and i very capaple of form a thought that generrally keep for myself about various martial arts.

In this sense, i can speak a very lot, about the Trully and the efectivity of the techniques learned in kobushindo, and i more than disposse to show this point to anyone that want to see it, or even prove it (Self confidence? confidence in kobushindo? yes of course, or you don't have it? confidence in yourselfs or in his own Dojo or Sensei?)

About the use of Belt's. if at this point this isn't clear yet, a belt is only a reference, of your time and advance in kobushindo, we practiced Kenjutsu but Karate as well, and we don't use a Belt with the Hakama, only with Karategui. on more time, if the person that asked me once about the Senseis grades and i used the belts was a reference, for a person that not for the fact that use a Samurai helmet in his head a can qualify about your knowing of this (that seems to be very extensive) but an answer to you maybe could be an answer for many persons that don't know wat you know, in this sense, i used the Belt terms as paralleling reference. Obviusly in Shotokan is a very precise reference.

Zaga-X · 7th September 2010, 04:13 AM

Now, near the finish or my biblic post xD.

as i the person than put this videos and promove us in websites and some of the previous word seem to be my words, i have to say somethings:

I NEVER SAY (as far than i remeber and if is the case was a mistake) than Sensei was a 4th Dan in Kenjutsu as far i know is really very very hard past from the 2d. for many reasosn than wold be for another discussión and i not pretend extend this beyond this post.

Some guy try it convince you to join? or some guy invited to join (At leats in mexico this are two very diferents things)

In our training in kenjutsu at least US, beggins with a strong of the basics of Kendo since "manners" ("Etiqueta" in spanish i don't know what word is in english) i mean since Ritsurei, to Seiza, sarei sonkyo etc.) to many stances, and strikes of kendo but we NEVER CLAIMED be kendokas or kendo experts, and the true experts of Kendo have MY truly respect (I know some of them, even have a crooss talk with a mexican champ). A kendoka maybe know a some or a lot of Kenjutsu and MAYBE NOT, and this is real, this words that you sentence as our truth are inexactly dude and at least the most of us NEVER express in this way or exactly words that you used, and this words isn't only from us, i have read this before in other many sites.

Now you look a training? awesome but you know what? you don't know nothing about us, but at least i know somethings about you: or you practic Kendo as a Goof or a Sport, or simply you never be interested in some things as doctrinal Budo, Bushido o how you guys want named it or your Sensei never teach about this, because if this was the case you would taking care of your manner of speak, obviusly yo don't seems to hear of read before about REI respect and self-respect in case of you don't kow it.
Even some persons that was obiously offended for the Flag show more carefull about pre-judge or the way that express...

That's all.

KOBUSHINDO: DISCIPLINE AND HONOR...

P.D. Nico: if you come to my channel and pretend some real interesting in us, at least you could say to me that only try to have some thing for chat with your ciberfriends (I'm going understand the reason as many of this type of videos have the block-comment option activated)...

**braxtonhicks** · 7th September 2010, 08:16 AM

WTF.

Any usage of a Hakenkreuz other than as part of an historical context or in it's original context as a religious symbol can really only be construed as a symbol of a brutal, murderous regime. Put it in your videos if you want, because you think it's okay, but I think you may be alienating people from joining your commando-kenjutsu-boy-scout-troop.

Obviously there is much Japanese symbolism in kendo. We count in Japanese and adopt certain customs. But kendo or JSA in general are not part and parcel of Japan's imperialist past. Martial Arts are not symbols of Japanese Imperialism, although they are very Japanese. At this point they are Japan's most succesful cultural export, and have brought millions of people together. Your display of a Hakenkreuz has nothing to do with this. Don't equate symbolism in Japanese Sword Arts with a WW2 Era Kriegsmarine Flag. That's comparing apples to Nazis. What we do isn't a show of "sympathy" to Imperial Japan, and it's not as if we hate Germany.

I hate what the Japanese did, and what the Nazis did in WW2. My father fought in both the Pacific and Atlantic, and I'm lucky to even have been born, because he narrowly survived. However, that doesn't stop me from loving Kendo, Sushi, BMW's, Weissbier, speaking German, etc*, or being close friends with people from those nations, or of those ancestries. But you won't catch me waving flags or dressing up like soldiers from that era. Those are times in both countries' history that most people want to put behind them, including people from those countries.

Get a grip guey, lose the flag. Why not make your own, or use something Mexican? The Mexican flag is one of the coolest on the planet, right up there with Brazil's if you ask me!

*my apologies to all Japanese or Germans here. I realize there is more to your respective cultures than what I listed.

**ScottUK** · 7th September 2010, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Zaga-X

About the "Group" of Nitten: question that have recieved two times before, yo know? i don't really know and i dont't really sure that sensei knows, because he recived orders you know? the order was train with this guys to the end, and in the army and order isn't questioned, but i know that Iito Urazawa, belongs to the 52th Generation of "Suke" Nitten in japan and for some morbid guy you can search a pic of Tsunanori sakakura, the internet is full of pics of this Sensei, and at leats in Mexico is very know as the introductor of nippon kempo in mexico.

I make a point of learning what I can about all Niten, and I can assure you that either you are mistaken - or being lied to. The 52nd generation soke? No.

Originally Posted by braxtonhicks

Any usage of a Hakenkreuz other than as part of an historical context or in it's original context as a religious symbol can really only be construed as a symbol of a brutal, murderous regime.

...and really cool uniforms. The Allies had nothing quite as cool. It is a shame such a professional armed force was involved with war crime. The early SS could've gone down in history as one of the best fighting forces if it wasn't for all the horrors perpetrated by them.

Oh, and weissbier is disgusting.

**braxtonhicks** · 8th September 2010, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by ScottUK

Oh, and weissbier is disgusting.

What you drink? Newky Brown? *Gag*. Watneys Red Barrel?

**David G** · 8th September 2010, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by ScottUK

...and really cool uniforms. The Allies had nothing quite as cool. It is a shame such a professional armed force was involved with war crime. The early SS could've gone down in history as one of the best fighting forces if it wasn't for all the horrors perpetrated by them.

The nearest the allies got to cool uniforms were the British and US para uniforms. The Germans had much cooler uniforms, most of their kit and definately their tanks. Although a lot of German transport was horses!

**David G** · 8th September 2010, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by braxtonhicks

Watneys Red Barrel?

Can't hear that name without thinking about the "Travel Agent" sketch from Monty Python . . . .

**ScottUK** · 8th September 2010, 12:10 AM

I ain't gonna say 'cos it will invalidate my opinion.

**Mr. T.** · 8th September 2010, 12:10 AM

Hello Mr. García,

I have to say that I am shocked by your (groups) ignorance towards the Nazi regime and its history.

No matter how good they were in combat, they committed horrific crimes that cannot be excused. Ever.
They where good at war and killing millions of innocent people.
Yeh, great role models.

The kriegsmarine flag you use is a flag used by a regime that is responsible for the worst crimes imaginable. It has no place in modern times, there is no excuse for using it. Period.

So don’t talk about and open mind. I’m very open minded, but I have my limits.