Tying Hakama And Obi

[Peter West]

Left first is the general rule in Japanese culture.

Except when you stand up, step forward...
This still doesn't explain WHY

[Peter West]

aye same here
though i do my front half all above the obi knot so it doesnt fall down
and the back strap i do on the same level as the crossover part as opposed to below, as its more comfortable for me that way

oh and i always do a bow as it looks pretty

Sorry forgot to explain:
the way I described is for men. Women doing this will often end up with half the hakama round their ankles after a couple of sitting forms. Nothing kinky or sexist, they're just a significantly (often pleasantly) different shape.

[Ojiisan]

- Step into hakama; pull it up to waist level.
- Drop hakama, turn around and put it on right way 'round.
- pull it up to waist level again.
- drop hakama again; step into it again; this time insuring both legs don't go into the same hole.
- pull it up to waist level again.
- take the front ties in hand and wrap them around and behind your body.
- pull up hakama to waist level again.
-grab ties again.
-pull hakama up again. Hold it in place with elbow.
- Grab ties again. hold them with teeth.
- pull up hakama again. Try to hold it in place by crossing legs in bizarre 'gotta pee' position while trying to grab both front ties with one hand and guide them to teeth.
- leave ties alone; staple front of hakama to belt. Gingerly take up ties trying not to disturb hakama.
- apply first aid to small holes in stomach.
- tuck top of hakama behind belt; grab ties and shove them bodily between belt and gi.
- wrap ties about a dozen times around body; tie in square knot.
- retie in square knot.
- think about joining Boy Scouts to learn how to tie knots.
- tie in big ol' fashioned granny knot.
- untie ties in a hurry; take deep breath before passing out. Wait until face goes from blue to pink - or whatever colour it normally is. Retie a little less tight than before.
- pull up back of hakama, grab ties, pass them between belt and gi.
- tie back ties in front. There should be about 10 meters of tie left over.
- Fold left tie in half, then half again, then half again, then half again, then half again, then half again, then half again until it forms a sort of pad 10 centimeters long and about twice that thick.
- place folded tie horizontally against stomach.
- take unfolded tie and wrap it around the mass of ties and knots and pads over its entire length until it forms a monstrous bow at your stomach.
- adjust cardboard bit so it fits snugly against your stomach.
- look again at carboard bit, then at the hakamas of instructors watching and laughing their heads off.
- cry.
- undo hakama, get out and start over.

[Peter West]

Ojiisan, you are from a different school. If that's how your sensei tells you to do it, who am I to argue?

[Yonshakujo]

Here's my method for Hakama (I'm not claiming this is the only way, just that this is how I do it) :
1. step into hakama holding front in both hands (traditionally i was taught step in left foot first but never found out why)。。。。。。。。。。。。。

I was told by a very senior ZKR instructor that practice begins with the unfolding of the hakama, to get you into the correct mindset, and that you step into the hakama with your left foot first so as to not entangle your right foot in case you have to move to defend yourself against attack - you're always ready, thinking of your position and balance, and how to react in the worst situation. Same as the reverse, stepping out with the right first, ready for someone to take advantage of that momentary distraction and entanglement. 残心。。。。。。。。。。

Of course, the same guy told me it was a good idea to drink a vat of cheap sake with him, too, and we were certainly not prepared for battle that night, or the next day or two....

[Jin509]

Navigate through these pages http://kimonoo.net/kituke.html They are in Japanese but if you use babelfish at altavista you can translate them into English, however the pictures are easy to follow.

For obi I recommend this one

http://kimonoo.net/kata1.html

as for the Hakama

http://kimonoo.net/ham-1.html

Have fun!

thnx for the links. i havent worn my hakama and keikogi for soo long that i nearly forgot how to tie the hakama. it would slowly fall apart during practice!!

[Decado]

Left first is the general rule in Japanese culture.

Sorry Beth, it's from the song:

"You put your left leg in,
You put your left leg out,
You put your left leg in,
And you shake it all about,
You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn yourself around,
That's what it's all about"

Very popular in London I gather!

(probably totally lost most of the people on KWF on that one I think)

[turboyoshi]

You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn yourself around,
[...]
(probably totally lost most of the people on KWF on that one I think)

"Cokey" ??
I think you should find a new supplier. Looks like you been in Kenzan's stash.
Noticing any "special" feelings for small woodland creatures lately?

sean

[Decado]

"Cokey" ??
I think you should find a new supplier. Looks like you been in Kenzan's stash.
Noticing any "special" feelings for small woodland creatures lately?

sean

I think the song is the Hokey Pokey in the US.

Small woodland creatures! Ah, Kenzan's bush(y tail)! Does nibbling your nuts make you have "special" feelings for small woodland creatures?

[JCM]

Ah, Kenzan's bush(y tail)! Does nibbling your nuts make you have "special" feelings for small woodland creatures?

Mental picture, thanks a lot

[babayaga]

Except when you stand up, step forward...
This still doesn't explain WHY

Probably for much the same reason that left is "sinister" and disfavored in Western culture: good ol' ageless superstition.

As I am sure you are aware, there is not necessarily a reason for everything we do in the martial arts, and when reasons are constructed we end up with drivel like "the meanings of the seven pleats of the hakama." For putting on hakama, "left leg first" probably falls into that category.

[Peter West]

I was told by a very senior ZKR instructor that practice begins with the unfolding of the hakama, to get you into the correct mindset, and that you step into the hakama with your left foot first so as to not entangle your right foot in case you have to move to defend yourself against attack - you're always ready, thinking of your position and balance, and how to react in the worst situation. Same as the reverse, stepping out with the right first, ready for someone to take advantage of that momentary distraction and entanglement. 残心。。。。。。。。。。

Of course, the same guy told me it was a good idea to drink a vat of cheap sake with him, too, and we were certainly not prepared for battle that night, or the next day or two....

Babayaga also said:
As I am sure you are aware, there is not necessarily a reason for everything we do in the martial arts, and when reasons are constructed we end up with drivel like "the meanings of the seven pleats of the hakama." For putting on hakama, "left leg first" probably falls into that category.


I have also heard the reason Yonshakujo mentions, but I'm not convinced by it. After all if you get dressed in a place where someone could attack you in this way and you are not aware of the threat, you deserve to have bits cut off, and, furthermore, you still have to put your right foot in at some time.

Babayaga's explanation i find far more convincing. But in that case why have any rule at all? Were Japanese beginners so dependent on their instructors that they needed this level of instruction? Or were old school sensei so controlling that they felt a need to determine even these details?

[Harry Jones]

Right? Left? Gosh! I tend to be ruled by the practicality of the situation. Get into the thing a quickly as possible to maximise training time.

Harry

[Oroshi]

To my knowledge left then right is sahō for things worn on the legs. Right then left is what you'd do if you were going to perform seppuku. When taking off the hakama, you step out with your right leg first. The same applies for tabi. (Of course, when wearing kimono or dōgi right then left (右前) is normal, unless you are dead).

Reading up a bit on this, it seems that the reasoning Yonshakujo mentions is quite widespread. That doesn't necessarily mean it's realistic, but it could be more about maintaining a certain mindset.

I'm not sure if it matters so much for beginners, unless your sensei makes a point of it. I was certainly never told about it in the dojo.

[Peter West]

Right? Left? Gosh! I tend to be ruled by the practicality of the situation. Get into the thing a quickly as possible to maximise training time.

Harry

I tend to do the opposite. I stand there thinking "was it right or left first?". Much as that might seem like an alzheimer-induced trip to munen-mushin-land, it is in fact a practical solution to a very real problem. It delays my entry into the dojo and minimises the time i have to face the horrors of some of the things my students present to me purporting to be iaido.

Seriously though, while I agree with you, I think I've done it left foot first so long now it's as natural as moving shimo no ashi first in the dojo...or is it kami no ashi???!!!