Tying Hakama And Obi

[Harry Jones]

It delays my entry into the dojo and minimises the time i have to face the horrors of some of the things my students present to me purporting to be iaido.

Te He. Actually a similar thought occurred to me just after I last posted. That perhaps dressing in a kind of spiritual and meaningful mindset originates from a very hung over teacher trying to delay the dreadful moment of beginning practice. Personally if I’m trying to delay I find it very useful to straighten my sageo 50 thousand times. (must get those ends even or everyone will see how unbalanced my mind is!)

[Wonderwillow]

Wow getting some good tips here

I think I'm with Harry on this one. But I think that’s my trouble so keen to get into the dojo (or most probably running late). I never seem to get the job done properly.

All adds to the dojo comedy.

I think there should be some sort hakama training day. Where we get together and share different hakama tying and folding techniques.

[Wonderwillow]

OK I'm with Harry' previous comment

I have no idea what it's like to be drunk!... honest

[corwyn]

I asked my mother (first generation Japanese) why there's the obsession with left-first for a lot of things in Japan, and she had no idea...just tradition.

Left foot first stepping into hakama (reversed, right foot first when stepping out)
Left knee first when dropping into seiza
Left hand first when bowing in seiza (and then right hand is first one to come out of the bow)

Maybe the hokey-pokey is what it's all about....

[Peter West]

Maybe keeping the right side free to act as long as possible is not specifically necessary in those circumstances, but maybe it's part of the training to ALWAY keep the right foot and hand free to act. Maybe this is part of the "as that should be the natural way a swordsman moves, so that is the way you should do everything" to become instinctive and natural. In a similar manner O chiburi is a cutting action, but it doesn't need to be, in order to be effective any old shake will do, but back to the "as that should be the natural way a swordsman moves, so that is the way you should do everything" adage, it make sense to make it a cutting action.

...maybe...

[Peter West]

Maybe keeping the right side free to act as long as possible is not specifically necessary in those circumstances, but maybe it's part of the training to ALWAY keep the right foot and hand free to act. Maybe this is part of the "as that should be the natural way a swordsman moves, so that is the way you should do everything" to become instinctive and natural. In a similar manner O chiburi is a cutting action, but it doesn't need to be, in order to be effective any old shake will do, but back to the "as that should be the natural way a swordsman moves, so that is the way you should do everything" adage, it make sense to make it a cutting action.

...maybe...

[Decado]

Strangely enough, I've always put my left leg into the hakama first although no-one told me to do so. Maybe it's natural for a right handed (and legged) person like myself to do so. Something to do with feeling better balanced standing on my right leg maybe?

As a matter of interest, does anyone who is naturally left-handed feel they should put their right leg into the hakama first?

[corwyn]

Given the Japanese obsession with the left first, I was curious to know why gohonme kesagiri (the only standing kata I know so far) started with the right, but perhaps it's a combination of practical and superstitious things. It seems like it would be awkward to draw and perform the upwards cut with the left foot forward, so you want to end forward motion with the right foot forwards. The number four is bad luck, so to have an even number of steps, you'd either have to go with 2 or 6 steps. 2 might have been considered too few, and 6 too many, so they settled on 3, so you have to start with the right.

Of course, this is purely pulled out of my butt and is based on the only standing form I know...

[Peter West]

Corwyn, all standing Iai kata begin on the right foot. This is because it is naturally easier to cut with the right foot forward, so
step 1. right foot. This represents the last step of naturally walking along minding your own business
step 2. left foot. Some idiot thinks he can get the better of you. You look at the enemy, take the sword and draw most of the blade on the 2nd step so that
step 3. right foot, you show him he was wrong.

There are variations, so don't everyone try and shoot me down. This is the general principle.

In 2 man kata, generally you approach the centre beginning with the foot that is naturally forward in the opening kamae.

[babayaga]

Corwyn, all standing Iai kata begin on the right foot.

*cough* korranto? *cough*

The exception that proves the rule. ^_^

Anyway, to get back to the reason, Peter also said this upthread:

I have also heard the reason Yonshakujo mentions, but I'm not convinced by it. After all if you get dressed in a place where someone could attack you in this way and you are not aware of the threat, you deserve to have bits cut off, and, furthermore, you still have to put your right foot in at some time.

Hear, hear.

I'm still a baby at this, so my opinion doesn't hold much weight, but I do believe one of the aims of practicing so many different waza is to ingrain flexibility and proactability (see, I made up my own word) into our repertoire. So we can act from all situations and conditions. When you're getting dressed, you are holding your hakama in both hands and your sword is not on your person -- you're in no position to defend yourself other than by jumping out of your hakama and throwing the garment at teki. I would hope that anyone is just as capable of doing that with their right foot in the hakama as the left.

To be more concise, I would hope that no one is that narrowly trained.

[Peter West]

*cough* korranto? *cough*

The exception that proves the rule. ^_^

That's interesting. Koranto (Musi Shinden Ryu Shoden, right?) is the equivalent kata to MJER Oikaze if I'm not mistaken. Oikaze certainly begins on the right foot (5, 7 or 9 running steps). I know Koranto is different, but I wasn't aware that it is taught beginning on the left foot. I don't train MSR, so what do I know?

This would support your statement
http://uk.youtube.com/results?search...iaido+koran+to

anyway, I did say "There are variations, so don't everyone try and shoot me down. This is the general principle."

[babayaga]

That's interesting. Koranto (Musi Shinden Ryu Shoden, right?) is the equivalent kata to MJER Oikaze if I'm not mistaken.

Correct. Where we might vary steps is after the nukitsuke, at least as I've been taught.

anyway, I did say "There are variations, so don't everyone try and shoot me down. This is the general principle."

Hey, if I was shooting you down I wouldn't have used smileys -- I'd have used eye-rolling and more shooting-downerly language. ^_^

Anyway, I riffled through my brain trying to think of any other waza that begin on left foot, and of our shoden level techniques korranto is the only one. I'm only passing familiar with some of our chuden and okuden waza, and no left-foot starters there AFAIK.

Interesting. So now I'm wondering how that difference in korranto came about.

[jakku-san]

Correct. Where we might vary steps is after the nukitsuke, at least as I've been taught.



Hey, if I was shooting you down I wouldn't have used smileys -- I'd have used eye-rolling and more shooting-downerly language. ^_^

Anyway, I riffled through my brain trying to think of any other waza that begin on left foot, and of our shoden level techniques korranto is the only one. I'm only passing familiar with some of our chuden and okuden waza, and no left-foot starters there AFAIK.

Interesting. So now I'm wondering how that difference in korranto came about.

yeh that is strange that it starts of the left, in jikiden(how i understand it) i work it by a 2 5 2 step sort of thing, the first two are your strolling along, the 5 are leading to the nukitsuke and the last two the kiritsuke. (i think... i may be thinking of something else tho:P) then again ive been wrong before:P

[Peter West]

yeh that is strange that it starts of the left, in jikiden(how i understand it) i work it by a 2 5 2 step sort of thing, the first two are your strolling along, the 5 are leading to the nukitsuke and the last two the kiritsuke. (i think... i may be thinking of something else tho:P) then again ive been wrong before:P

That's about right, as far as it can be described in words.

[Peter West]

Correct. Where we might vary steps is after the nukitsuke, at least as I've been taught.



Hey, if I was shooting you down I wouldn't have used smileys -- I'd have used eye-rolling and more shooting-downerly language. ^_^

Anyway, I riffled through my brain trying to think of any other waza that begin on left foot, and of our shoden level techniques korranto is the only one. I'm only passing familiar with some of our chuden and okuden waza, and no left-foot starters there AFAIK.

Interesting. So now I'm wondering how that difference in korranto came about.

I don't know (after all until today I hadn't realized koranto was done of the left in 2 paces anyway).

There are kai waza (kae waza?) for oku iai Yuki Zure and Tsuri Dachi with no paces, just a move of the front foot to open the posture for Kiritsuke. I once did Tsuri Dachi as a stab to the rear left with no footwork at all followed by a cut to the right front using the technique of Kabezoi. it was the final of a European Championships in 1994 (5th dan section). It was a tough match and I was pulling out all the stops. Luckily no Japanese referees or they'd have been laughing too much to raise a flag.