First lesson in bogu

**Gilligan** · 27th July 2011, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Little_Fox

I do tend to feel rather hopeless in fights and move back or try to block, which I know I shouldn't. I will practice at home and see how it goes. I guess my goal right now should be to get used to bogu and pick up my speed.

I'll try not to get so frustrated...

Not hopeless, you just don`t have the tools to do the job. Use what you have been taught, that will get better. Then new things (tools) will be taught.
Frustration happens to us all. when you can, dont worry about it. (easier said than done)
most people here have been doing kendo for many years, those that stick with it decades. so no need to rush. I did basics for nearly 10months then as I said put the bogu on starting with kote. do tare then men. and no sparing until I`d been practicing for nearly a year. But this is a pretty rare time frame I think.

**rfoxmich** · 27th July 2011, 06:37 PM

When/if you see them coming step forward and strike. Don't bother trying to block and don't try to back up...if you back up all you do is make room for them to strike again. If you step forward to and strike at that point instead you're not only learning a valuable bit of kendo timing, as well as an important
approach to kendo but you are potentially spoiling their strike.

**Little_Fox** · 27th July 2011, 06:55 PM

Yeah, I have to break habits from karate - I am used to backing up to kick and generally fighting a bit lighter! I did try to men cut as they went for me but they are much faster, so they always hit. I guess I just need to keep trying, as long as I'm doing the right thing and not worry about whether it hits yet so long as the execution of it is correct.

Practice, practice, practice for me I suppose! I'm impatient by nature so I get frustrated if I don't see

**Little_Fox** · 27th July 2011, 06:57 PM

Oops, hit send too early! Should end "I get frustrated if I don't see me improving. Bad for my pride being battered, but good for determination!"

**IronWarrior** · 27th July 2011, 07:36 PM

Little Fox, I don't understand how you couldn't score a single point when you practice Jigeiko, because your senpai's should be allowing you to cut them, by opening up to allow you do Men, Kote and sometmes Do cuts, if they always keeping center and keeping it closed, it be a long and slow process for you to learn. Every so often, the senior should practice his Waza's on you or cut you to remind you that he is still there and allows him to get something out of it.

Originally Posted by Gilligan

I believe bogu should be put on in stages with the men last. practice in the do, tare and kote and finally men.

That is dangerous, practicing Kote or Do cuts without the Men protecting your face and head is only asking for trouble, sooner or later someone is going to get a face full of bamboo stick or having their eyes being hit.

**Gilligan** · 27th July 2011, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by IronWarrior

That is dangerous, practicing Kote or Do cuts without the Men protecting your face and head is only asking for trouble, sooner or later someone is going to get a face full of bamboo stick or having their eyes being hit.

It`s still beginners striking a motodachi, and not part of the regular class. Just gets them used to bogu, gradually.
it`s also good, when as sensei can demonstrate directly on the beginner, showing good form, etc and a the same time giving them a controled feel for what being struck is like. perfectly safe.

**Little_Fox** · 27th July 2011, 08:41 PM

When I fought the actual sensei of the club, he did open and occasionally hit men if my stance was bad. A few others did too but others just ran rings around me which got me down as at the end if the day that's a 'pepper's fight and I was rather rubbish. I also find even if people open for me, my reaction to it is very slow or sometimes I'm so pent up I don't even notice the opening.

**Little_Fox** · 27th July 2011, 08:49 PM

Stupid phone.... "proper" fight not peppers haha.

**enkorat** · 27th July 2011, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Little_Fox

I will invest in a protector as my wrist is literally blue this morning and I think I'll just have to suck up the pride-bruises for now.

Thanks again for the advice everyone! I'll try not to get so frustrated...

Hmm, okay, you really shouldn't be bruising like that. In that situation I would agree that you will want to look into additional protection. Also, you might want to have someone look at your kote to make sure that they're fitting correctly.

Originally Posted by b8amack

Disagree. People who hit too hard (of which I was one for entirely too long) can receive perfect hits all day and think they are doing the same. Or hard hits and think they are being gentle by contrast. Feedback from partners/instructors is the only way you really learn that you yourself are hitting too hard. Feedback and a willingness to listen, of course.

Yea, I don't know. I thought maybe some of them think that the feedback of "you're hitting too hard" "doesn't matter", and maybe it was lack of awareness. More consistent feedback is necessary I suppose....

**Shinsengumi77** · 27th July 2011, 11:12 PM

I'm surprised at just how many people invest in men and kote pads right from the get-go. Additional protection is probably convenient, but at the same time, if you don't use it, you'll toughen up a bit (same concept of arm/leg/ hardening in kung fu). And as Enkorat said, it's probably better to not use them, so be able to give proper feedback.

That being said, I can tell if I hit too hard on complete beginners at least...if their eyes wrench shut or they flinch even before you strike, that's a good indication of 'axe-ness', usually.

I think beginners should try and go without protection for at least half a year or more. By that time, I'll betcha they won't need it. (Of course there's always those rare instances where you get axe-kenshi to play with...)

**Little_Fox** · 27th July 2011, 11:29 PM

Hmm, that's a good point actually. I did Tang Soo Do for a few years and my feet toughened up as well as my legs (I was more of a kicker), but I remember the first blisters and initial pain of having a kick blocked too hard. I'll lay off buying the protector for now and get someone to check my kote. May well be I'm holding the shinai wrong and getting bruised as a result.

**Big One** · 27th July 2011, 11:59 PM

I have never use a Kote padding. I remembered when I was beginner, somehow I got hit and hurt like hell a lot at forearm and wrist. I don't know why but I don't feel hurt any more and I don't get hit at the wrist anymore.

However, I got a Kote padding for my 9 yr son. There is too much gap between adult and children that even a slight hit from adult is too much for the child.

**Gilligan** · 28th July 2011, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Shinsengumi77

I'm surprised at just how many people invest in men and kote pads right from the get-go. Additional protection is probably convenient, but at the same time, if you don't use it, you'll toughen up a bit

I somewhat agree with that, and think some people should toughen up. but on the other hand western people generaly start kendo at a much later age than in JP or Kor. at uni. or a local club as an adult. And some of us are build like brick shit houses. It is hard to get the concept of tenouchi, let alone do it successful for many people up til 3dan even. through no fault of their own they hit like he-man and hurt people. How often do we see miss matched types at training, small framed guys & girls training with a hulk of a guy or a plumber who has massive power in his arms, but can`t control it yet? While this is unavoidable with the vast array of body types in western countries. combine this with cheap armour that a uni. student can afford or worn out club armour. maybe pads do have a place. I`ve seen many people stop kendo because of the pain received or parents have seen briuses and freaked. this doesn`t happen everywhere all the time, but it does happen everywhere at sometime.

Kendo is great in that small can defeat big, girls beat guys. But there is no getting away the fact that those with strength who dont yet have control unintentionally hurt others in training. female kickboxer vs male= broken bones, big injuries.

**Toecutter** · 28th July 2011, 01:51 AM

Toughen up, really? If you wrist hurts wear a pad, it takes a while before you become accustom to getting hit in the wrist, head, and just wait until you get a nice tsuki. Just like it takes a while to be able to sit in seiza some people need adjustment times to being hit. As was said above my daughter wears one as well, beginners club her and childrens bogu isn't really padded well surprisingly enough. If you're an adult there's nothing wrong with wearing a pad, I don't think there is any tactile feed back you'll be missing from wearing one. If you think you are being hit too hard though you should speak up but people just into bogu often times think everyone is hitting too hard, it just takes time to understand what is and what isn't too much.