Taking center

[davehale]

I've recently been practicing in bogu and old habits die hard. I've been practicing karate for a long time and during jigeiko, I think (free-sparring, still learning kendo terms), I have a tendency to side step and attack on an angle. While my sensei didn't exactly discourage this he said as a beginner in kendo, I need to concentrate on taking center. I thought I'd ask KW their thoughts, opinions, mindset, training drills etc they use to help beginners learn to take center.

[sarge127]

Well what that is what my sensei said to the people in bogu in our club... "You can attack from every angle, Otherwise you'd be attacking at 1 dimension making it hard to loose the center (Kamae)"... I think thats how she said it. But it'd be best if you do concentrate on taking center.

[verissimus]

1) Avoid the temptation to block, bend, or cock your head to avoid being hit.
2) Move straight into your opponent. Something that I've had to work on recently is to continue moving straight after striking men, and not "revolve" around my opponent.
3) Concentrate more on using your left hand.

But I guess you've heard all of this already.

[jjcruiser]

If I am reading your post right you have just started Kendo and/or just gotten into bogu? If I were you I would focus for now on making sure your shoulders/hips are squared at the opponent, your feet are facing forward not to the side, and your shinai stays in a solid kamae in the centerline.

There's a lot more that could be said about this issue but if you're just into bogu some of it might be hard to process. That said, you could get some very sublime answers to this and I'm looking forward to certain people weighing in on it.

[turboyoshi]

For the most part, you will need to ignore everything you've been taught in other martial arts and learn to do things the kendo way. It's not that those other things are wrong per se, but they don't apply here, at least not until you get a good bit more advanced in your study of kendo. Look at it this way, you now have discovered a weakness at controlling the center, you must learn to fix this weakness instead of working around it.

As far as ways to take center, well I'm not good at this but here are things you can try: sliding your shinai down on top of the aite as you move in, pushing their shinai out of the way as you step in, to the left to strike men or to the right to strike kote or men, feint men as you move in to get them to raise their shinai so you can strike kote...you'll have to experiment using everything you've been taught. And remember that as you do jigeiko with more advanced people, they have already been through this learning process so that will make it hard for you to score, but you have to keep trying. This is hard and will always be hard but you'll find that one day, you're at a point where the other newbies will be struggling to figure out how to take center from you.

[davehale]

Yes, JJ, I've only been practicing Kendo for several months (in bogu for a few weeks) and 20 years of Karate sometimes makes an appearance. I don't want to break or ignore the mindset Karate has created, but I definitely want to increase my mental capacity for Kendo. I appreciate your answer as far as basics are concerned but I think my experience in Karate enables me to understand more cerebral answers. I only joined this forum recently but I have been reading it for some time and I too await for answers from certain people.

[davehale]

Turboyoshi, you are correct. I am finding that my Karate has little influence in my Kendo. What is funny is how much my Kendo has influenced my Karate. Like I mentioned to JJ, I don't want to exactly ignore my Karate spirit but when it's time for Kendo, it's Kendo all the way.
Thank you for your in depth advice. I can distinctly remember having that fallen for that feint a number of times.

[davehale]

2) Move straight into your opponent. Something that I've had to work on recently is to continue moving straight after striking men, and not "revolve" around my opponent.

Ha! This is one I've been having trouble with. My sensei tells me to stop constantly engaging my opponent and instead dedicate myself fully to my attack.

[jjcruiser]

I appreciate your answer as far as basics are concerned but I think my experience in Karate enables me to understand more cerebral answers.

It's not a cerebral or non cerebral thing and it's not a knock on your past experiences, which may put you far ahead of the game. I just mean there are certain things one can be told that one cannot really understand until you can do them. Personally I think what you are talking about is at the heart of Kendo: how do you dominate the center of an opponent who is actively trying to dominate yours?

Take or leave my advice for what it's worth (not much), but mine would be to not make it too complicated. Just stay in the center. Don't flick the kensen around, don't raise or lower your wrists, don't slide to the side, don't use your arms to move your kamae around--move your feet instead. Keep your kamae locked to and centered to your hara. Move from there not your feet or your hands. Stay solid and facing your opponent so you are always square to them and can always go straight forward.

The best drill I know for this is jigeiko. But I have also practiced a drill where you simply stand opposite a fellow kenshi and both people (don't even need bogu for this) manuever subtly in trying to take the center from the other.

FWIW, I'm surprised anyone is using feints with you in keiko at this point.

[davehale]

Thanks JJ, I think you're right. I've come to learn how intense Kendo can be without even striking. Also, I wasn't trying to sound arrogant with the cerebral thing, I only meant to not shy away from more advanced advice. Even if it means 6 months from now I tell myself, "Oh, thats what he/she meant!" Thanks for the drill as well, I will definitely be asking other students if they want to practice it before class.
I am unfamiliar with FWIW but yes, feints has been used on me. Not often though.

[Neil Gendzwill]

FWIW means "for what it's worth". And FWIW, find a mirror and practice that your basic men is centred. There are higher ideals to this "centre" concept but most beginners (and many not-so-beginners) break centre whenever they raise their hands to strike. You lift, your hands spread apart, your tip wanders to the right and your men is open. It's amazing how hard it is to get around someone who is simply good at keeping their shinai straight.

[rfoxmich]

The first thing at your level is to be the first one to attack. Since you've just gotten into bogu, you should almost be doing jigeiko like uchikomi or kakari geiko. Your objective is to attack, note what works and what doesn't. Then think about what constituted a true opening and what constituted a fully committed attack. If you have a good set of dojo-mates, they will be allowing you to strike if you strikes are well motivated, fully committed and at a high level relative to your ability.

The main point is that Jigeiko at your level is not fighting, not competing it is practice too...and you have to use it as practice rather than emphasizing not being stuck. Your emphasis should be on striking even if in the process you too are struck. That, after all is the essence of sutemi and the core of how kendo is done.

Best of luck.

[davehale]

Neil, once my local gym opens I will definitely be practicing that. I don't have high enough ceilings in my house and my Kendo practices are in a gym.

Thank you all for your responses as well.

[Shinsengumi77]

I don't know if this will help, but sometimes hearing only the technical "do's" and "don'ts" when your body may not be able to change things right away is not as helpful as we'd all like.

So let me try and give you another way to look at taking center, or at least how I conceive of it mentally.

If you approach kendo as a battle between who has the stronger will/ spirit, then taking center shows your inability to be forced to back down. People who lose the center or who drift off at angles may be, at least in this way, losing the battle as well.

By attacking straight one shows their determination. By attacking from other angles you may show that since you are unable to overcome your opponent directly, you must compensate through tactics. Of course, there's nothing wrong with tactics or being able to adapt and attack from many directions...but if it's a mind game, the moment you lose center, you've already lost.

That being said, I'm inexperienced, so take this with a grain of salt.

[Winter67uk]

No need to wait for the gym. Neil's wandering kensen is clearly apparent when sitting in seiza and cutting in front of a mirror. Do the exercise, spot the problem, and correct it by using the left hand to cut. If this isn't clear, let go of the shinai with the right hand and just cut with the left hand. You'll see what's going on immediately. Don't hit the mirror!

When you're cutting correctly the kensen will rise and fall along a vertical line, without any wavering to the left or right.