Seme and timing

[Neil Gendzwill]

My sensei's simple words: "step in sharp, then hit". 20 years later, the bulb dimly lights up...

[tango]

Seriously, @rainmaker --- you are asking the same question(s) I know I was asking before I tested 4.dan the first time...

What you are asking is "How do I read the opponent" ... well, the answer is, "I don't know how YOU read the opponent"...

I know how *I* try to read the opponent, but I can't articulate how I sense/feel the right time to attack.. and even if I could, I don't know that you or anyone else would understand what YOU should sense/feel based on how I try to describe in words what *I* sense/feel.

..This is why I think we tend to get enigmatic responses from sensei like "JUST FOCUS THE OPPONENT!"
..Hell.. even Musashi gives enigmatic responses, and he always ends up saying, "You must study this deeply" (or something like that)... which, IMO, is nothing more than saying, "You should spend much time on the practice floor to figure this out."

I've said it before and I'll repeat it...
Yazaki-sensei (7.dan) was the one who told me about the "wait 10 seconds" rule. It's not a rule, obviously, but I think this was his enigmatic way of trying to articulate something I could do in order to try figure out how to sense/feel the right time to launch... If you are mentally prepared to launch your physical attack, you are (should be) already in a state of mental attack against aite... if you just move in, move in, move in, move in... it's like you're having a one-sided conversation with aite; its as if you're serving him plate after plate after plate of seme, but you're not even giving him a chance to consider whether or not he wants to eat the first dish you served him... in fact, you're not even letting him pick up his fork before you start to bring another dish of seme...

give him a plate of seme and observe him to see whether or not he wants to eat some of it... as soon as he goes for his fork, hit the guy in the head.... if you observe him and see that he's 'aware' of the seme you just served and doesn't want any of it, serve him a different plate of seme and see if he'll go for that... if he goes for the fork, hit him upside the head.

seme and reading the opponent... there is NEVER a one-size fits all way of doing it. There is NEVER a precise "how to" way to describe it.

You have to learn how it feels --- to you --- that the proper time to launch has arrived..
it's not too terribly different from teaching newbies about ki-ken-tai-ichi... you can describe it to them, you can demonstrate it for them... but they can't do it right until they've tried it so much that something finally *clicks* in their heads.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think the best way to develop this sort of thing is just to play with as many high-level people as you can. I know this was an issue for Rogers back when we were discussing a lot of the same things. But if you can play other people 4, 5 dan and higher, then you can try to bring this pressure. Even if it doesn't succeed, you can ask them if they can feel you trying. Because for most people at sandan, it's just all physical stuff. Sure they hit quick and accurately and all that, but there isn't anything behind it other than the technique. Furthermore, they can't tell you very well if you are bringing the pressure.

Rogers uses his 10 second rule. I have another variation - think about hitting, visualize hitting, have every intention of hitting, just don't hit.

[tango]

Neil, I was just coming back to say the exact same thing...

@rainmaker -- do as much keiko with Maeda-sensei as humanly possible. Don't think too much about it at all. Don't try to use fancy waza or anything. Keiko with him and try to get men. Focus only on that. ... He is a very good teacher.
Always try to set up debana-men through seme against him... forget about debana kote or kaeshi-dou or anything else... seme, debana-men. this will also help to keep your mind focused and help you to avoid "too much thinking"... just think about hitting men. You'll learn.. he'll teach you a lot of things without your even realizing it.

And yes, FWIW, I do like Neil's advice to me (which I've also passed on, I'll have you know!).. mind, body, soul, everything primed to hit --- but don't hit. I actually use that in combination with the 10 second rule.. I don't think about "10 seconds" anymore... the idea is "patience without waiting" ... that is a real key (at least at this point in my kendo career), and in my world, patience absolutely requires putting into practice Neil's advice above.

[Halcyon]

the idea is "patience without waiting"

Mmm, me likes. Me likes very much.

[hugo]

Rainmaker, I am preparing for the same test and pondering many of the same questions. Allow me to make an analogy of seme and tame using your offer of $100:

If you are offering only $100, I suspect that none of the 4-Dan and above will take the bait.

[Karaken]

I'll take the bait. Here it is "The Answer".

[G-CHAN]

"I am not a rag doll" which I took to mean that what is important is the interaction between you and your aite rather than just doing what you want to do. So first you have to build some sort of communication, rather than saying ok...I'm pushing in and striking men.

FWIW, here's my take on this...I think this gets lost in translation when trying to learn how to manage your opponent. Stop attacking the aite as if he's a rag doll or uchikomidai. In other words you're facing a live opponent capable of scoring against you. If you have two applicants fighting each other in shinsa with the same deficiencies, what you'll normally see is a lot of random strikes.

Every waza has value and risk, some more than others(hiki waza is way down the list for me). There is a cause and effect for every waza you execute against the aite because you'll see subtle changes in his demeanor. Once you have a better understanding of this, you should have a better understanding on managing the opponent. Imo, at this level, you should be conversing with the aite through your shinai.

So... I think the question the op should ask himself is, how extensive is my vocabulary? In other words, what waza(s) was I working on since my last shinsa? And second... if not, why not? Imo...by nidan, you should be able to execute at least one oji waza consistently, if not more. Being able to oji changes the dynamics of a match. Add to the fact you'll have a better understanding of seme and timing simply because you can't randomly oji. Regardless of rank, "intent" is the most common sign you'll see in kendo.

There's a lot more to this.... I'm done babbling for now. I hope this kind of helps...gambare