Obi, Hakama Himo, and Saya.

[DCPan]

Question.

If you look from the left side of a person, the front hakama himo basically looks like a "Z" where you wrap around to the back, than diagonal down forward, then back again. Add the back hakama himo, and you get another diagonal which basically overlaps the diagonal in the Z.

So, here's the question.

Which hakama himo sits on the outside or omote side of the sword when it is in the obi? Which ones sit inside?

I've always thought that the saya sits between the inner most layer and second wrap of the obi and that only the bottom leg of the "Z" of the front hakama himo sits on the inside (ura side) of the saya.

Then I see page 93 of Iwata sensei's book, "Koryu Iai no Hondo", and he places the saya such that both the diagonal leg and bottom leg of the "Z" of the front hakama himo sits on the inside of the saya, and the top leg of the front himo and the back hakama himo sits on the omote side.

Thoughts?

Also, for those that have the book, how is it that from picture 8 to picture 9 (page 92 to 93), the section of the obi that "sticks out above the hakama himo" is gone?

Thanks!

[Halcyon]

I've always thought that the saya sits between the inner most layer and second wrap of the obi and that only the bottom leg of the "Z" of the front hakama himo sits on the inside (ura side) of the saya.

That's the way our school does it too. But maybe different ryuha have different ways of doing things.

[rottunpunk]

I don't think it is written why it is shown in one photo set and not the others.
Perhaps it is to aid the reader to see what is happening by putting the lighter cloth behind.
He didn't normally wear the obi so it could be seen above the hakama. So pictures 9 and 10 would be correct

The sword needs to go through that part to allow good saya biki and so that the sword sits correctly in the belt.
If i recall correctly, he writes somewhere in the book that if someone cannot dress so that the sword sits correctly they cannot do iai.

I wear my hakama so the himo are all on one line (no Z shape) and use the outermost himo as the underneath one

[Peter West]

Never thought about it. I push the kojiri into wherever goes easiest. Never had a problem. It's probably different each time.

[DCPan]

That's the way our school does it too. But maybe different ryuha have different ways of doing things.

Yeah, but I didn't really think MSR and MJER would be that different.

I've seen it done differently in photos of TSKSR and Mugai-Ryu...was just curious.

I will naturally experiment doing in that way, but was just curious....