Getting knocked over

**KendoPadawan** · 11th February 2012, 02:40 AM

Hi All,

I'm quite sure that most kenshi in their kendo training would have been knocked over at least once during their training. When you do and your on the ground, what is the expectation on this? Are you supposed to get up straight away and keep going, with a possibility that you might be injured? Or can you just take a moment on the ground, to try to get your act together before getting up and continuing? By the way, I'm talking about getting knocked over when in jigeiko.

**Scott H** · 11th February 2012, 02:45 AM

Just get up and go back at it. It does indeed happen to everyone eventually. Rarely have I seen anyone injured. It hurts the spirit more I think.

Trick is, not to let it happen more than once. Usually you'll see someone get knocked over when they come flying in for a men cut with their arms held too high after the strike and their balance is "floating" upwards. A good lesson for proper zanshin.

**verissimus** · 11th February 2012, 02:51 AM

When you get up, quickly check all your equipment is in place, that your men or do himo have not come loose, that your shinai is OK, etc. Also check that you haven't hurt yourself.

Then take a moment and figure out what you did that caused you to take the tumble. More often than not, it's bad posture - arms too high, etc.

No one is going to fault you for taking a moment for yourself before returning to fight.

**Halcyon** · 11th February 2012, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by KendoPadawan

Are you supposed to get up straight away and keep going, with a possibility that you might be injured? Or can you just take a moment on the ground, to try to get your act together before getting up and continuing?

Remember, kendo is a martial art. Just because you got knocked over, it doesn't mean the opponent is going to take pity on you. Get up, buck up, and keep fighting. Now, that being said, if you feel that you are indeed injured, then raise your hand and call for a time out. Don't start checking yourself and your equipment while the fight is still on. Even if you're down on the ground rolling around in pain, you should have enough presence of mind to call for a time out.

**verissimus** · 11th February 2012, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Remember, kendo is a martial art. Just because you got knocked over, it doesn't mean the opponent is going to take pity on you. Get up, buck up, and keep fighting. Now, that being said, if you feel that you are indeed injured, then raise your hand and call for a time out. Don't start checking yourself and your equipment while the fight is still on. Even if you're down on the ground rolling around in pain, you should have enough presence of mind to call for a time out.

But the shimpan usually call 'yame' almost immediately after someone goes down. Is that not the norm?

**pgsmith** · 11th February 2012, 03:43 AM

If you're good, you'll immediately go into a roll, pop back to your feet, and score kote while your opponent is distracted!

**Halcyon** · 11th February 2012, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by verissimus

But the shimpan usually call 'yame' almost immediately after someone goes down. Is that not the norm?

The original poster said he was talking about jigeiko.

**sarge127** · 11th February 2012, 04:10 AM

We were taught last night the reason for people falling over is because when they finish a Small men strike they raise there arms high, its easy for the other kendoka to come in and push you making you flop on the back.

**ShinKenshi** · 11th February 2012, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by verissimus

But the shimpan usually call 'yame' almost immediately after someone goes down. Is that not the norm?

Doesn't matter, you shouldn't count on the shimpan calling "yame" the second you hit the floor since they may or may not do so depending on the circumstances. There's a video floating around of a high school tournament in Japan with two jodan kenshi. One attempts kote, misses, and bends forward, while his opponent attempts men. At that second, the second kenshi flips over the first, rolls into an ukemi, and stands right back up anticipating the opponent would be ready to attack. The shimpan made no attempt to call "yame" at any point during this even though the second kenshi was clearly on the ground.

Also, the OP framed their original question with jigeiko in mind.

**rfoxmich** · 11th February 2012, 04:49 AM

You are allowed that 'one instant' to strike. The shinpan should call yame but _not_ immediately....just soon.

**KendoPadawan** · 11th February 2012, 05:10 AM

I'll give you one of the situations how I fell down. Still in jigeiko, I was ready to do hiki waza. I did it and was doing zanshin backwards, but the kenshi next to me (also doing jigeiko) stepped in my line and I didn't see him, thus tripped over his leg and flop!

I don't think that my footwork is that bad - but in a scenario where something like this happens.

**Toecutter** · 11th February 2012, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by KendoPadawan

I'll give you one of the situations how I fell down. Still in jigeiko, I was ready to do hiki waza. I did it and was doing zanshin backwards, but the kenshi next to me (also doing jigeiko) stepped in my line and I didn't see him, thus tripped over his leg and flop!

I don't think that my footwork is that bad - but in a scenario where something like this happens.

Thats not getting knocked over in keiko. Thats an unforeseen accident, even though some people might say you're not aware of your surroundings. Either way that happens all the time and I wouldn't consider that getting knocked over by your opponent.