Gym workout is bad for kendoka ?

[michaelm]

I sit in front of a computer screen all day at work. I sit in front of a computer/television screen at home. I sit in a vehicle for transportation. I can take an elevator/escalator to get to my office floor. I have a powered lawn mower. Cooking preparation can be a little as opening a frozen package and putting it in the microwave. Heck, I can even stay seated and call someone, tell them I'm hungry, and pizza shows up at my door in 30 minutes while I sit and continue to watch TV, and don't even have to get up to change the channel anymore.

You get the gist.

Many of us live pretty sedentary lives compared to our predecessors, and it wouldn't hurt us to supplement our comparatively short time in the dojo with some additional physical activity. If you had resources, access, time, and *spousal permission* to do kendo every day, more power to you.

Michael

[JSchmidt]

Here, here! Squats -- probably one of the most productive resistance training moves of all time. Also, lunges, especially plyometric lunges.

People who don't know weight training think of muscle-bound body builders. Instead, check out the youtube video I posted earlier in this thread about Olympic hurdler Lolo Jones.

Squats (front, back, overhead) for strength, Cleans & snatches for power. O-lifting is the ultimate plyometrics. Forget about curls and to some extent bench presses.

[Fudo-Shin]

I see, your argument is that if they didn't do it in the golden olden days, then it must be bad training. I have a friend who likes to say about cars and houses - "they don't build them like they used to - thank god". We have learned quite a lot about athletic training and performance over the last 100 years or so. Records in athletic events continue to be broken and it's not all drugs - modern nutrition and training methods are the reason. Many sports have had the nose in the air attitude about weight training over the years but they are all benefiting. The problem lies in outdated thinking about weight training - people think of rockhead piles of muscle but there is a smart way to train for nearly every sport.

Having said all that, I don't think resistance training is necessary for recreational kendoka, But I do think there's benefits to be had. Aerobic training is even more useful. Sure is nice to be able to concentrate on your waza rather than whether you are about to puke up a lung.

I guess at the crux of my point is that I just see it as another way that commercialism is creeping into kendo, call me a snob if you have to. I know plenty of people who don't use weights and their kendo is just fine - this list includes a few renshi and kyoshi and it wouldn't be hard to find a hanshi. The emphasis on sport kendo, competition and always being the "best" just detracts from what kendo is about. But each to their own I guess...

[Lloromannic]

I wouldn't even say that Bench Press is a useless exercise, far from it as it conditions the deltoids and triceps. Of course you don't want to go overboard with it. For me the biggest benefits of weight training are that the less percentage of my strength i have to use, the more relaxed i can be,

[davehale]

I lift weights regularly prior to starting kendo. It hasn't impeded my kendo to my knowledge. I use lower weights and higher reps, that way I get the strength and toning but I don't bulk up.

[turboyoshi]

I didn't mention resistance training, as far as I can see that has been around since man first lifted a rock. We are talking about modern gym set-ups here as per the thread title.

All modern gym equipment is just improved materials and designs over earlier forms of resistance training. There's no reason to ignore it unless you think old generations never used any form of resistance training AND that modern sensei could not surpass their achievements. I doubt either of those conditions are true but I'm sure they aren't both true.

[Fudo-Shin]

Perhaps I may have been over-critical of it, I admit that in an argumentative mood lately and to be honest I did have an image of muscle-bound prettyboys looking in mirrors when talk of gyms was started here, maybe the OP's sensei did too. I take your points, though, and may ask a few sensei about their thoughts on the subject. But at this point I just don't think anyone's kendo is lacking because they choose not to push weights or analyze data from a computer or machine. There are plenty other more simple ways to get that fill of resistance and cross training without forking out more dollars, but people are too easily sucked into gimmicks these days.

About modern sensei 'surpassing' the older generations; I'm not so sure that you can compare that and I personally think that we have lost our way a bit in some ways - but that is another thread.

[Neil Gendzwill]

How did dollars and gimmicks enter into this? You can improve your fitness plenty with bodyweight exercises or a few cheap dumbells. Lord knows I am not a competition focussed guy. My advice is usually geared to the recreational player with limited access to dojo time . ie most of KWs readers. You want to focus on your practice without worrying about coughing up a lung? Cross-training can help. If you live someplace where you can train in the dojo every day then bully for you.

[annoraderenart@]

Perhaps I may have been over-critical of it, I admit that in an argumentative mood lately and to be honest I did have an image of muscle-bound prettyboys looking in mirrors when talk of gyms was started here, maybe the OP's sensei did too. I take your points, though, and may ask a few sensei about their thoughts on the subject. But at this point I just don't think anyone's kendo is lacking because they choose not to push weights or analyze data from a computer or machine. There are plenty other more simple ways to get that fill of resistance and cross training without forking out more dollars, but people are too easily sucked into gimmicks these days.

About modern sensei 'surpassing' the older generations; I'm not so sure that you can compare that and I personally think that we have lost our way a bit in some ways - but that is another thread.

Ummmm... You have communicated with several people on this forum who ARE senseis. Just how many do you need to speak with? And know you have have attempted to change the argument toward funding. You are not obliged to take the advice that was offered, but at least accept that you were offered some valid view points. Think on it and then do go do some suburi.

[b8amack]

How did dollars and gimmicks enter into this? You can improve your fitness plenty with bodyweight exercises or a few cheap dumbells. Lord knows I am not a competition focussed guy. My advice is usually geared to the recreational player with limited access to dojo time . ie most of KWs readers. You want to focus on your practice without worrying about coughing up a lung? Cross-training can help. If you live someplace where you can train in the dojo every day then bully for you.

Speaking as one of those guys who can and does train in the dojo every day (bully for me!).... cross training still helps, and I should really get back on that horse.

[Fudo-Shin]

Think on it and then do go do some suburi.

At the gym?

How do you know I did not take the advice offered?

Also, I make no apologies for consulting sensei for a second opinion in reality (i.e face to face vs web).

[JSchmidt]

But at this point I just don't think anyone's kendo is lacking because they choose not to push weights or analyze data from a computer or machine. There are plenty other more simple ways to get that fill of resistance and cross training without forking out more dollars, but people are too easily sucked into gimmicks these days.

Again, I don't think you understand what weightlifting/cross-training can do...and I don't use a single machine. (Ok, a K2 rower occasionally, but that's about it)...and I think everyones kendo, maybe with the exception of the 'natural' athlete, would benefit hugely from it.
To be honest, I didn't appreciate it myself until last year.
Further, it's not just for 'sports kendo', but your overall kendo (You do want to improve your kendo, right?) and general health and wellbeing!.

Granted, it took me awhile to learn to use this new strength and power in kendo, but it has now enabled me to take a huge step forward, with comparatively little time spent on the dojo floor.

[Fudo-Shin]

Again, I don't think you understand what weightlifting/cross-training can do...and I don't use a single machine. (Ok, a K2 rower occasionally, but that's about it)...and I think everyones kendo, maybe with the exception of the 'natural' athlete, would benefit hugely from it.
To be honest, I didn't appreciate it myself until last year.
Further, it's not just for 'sports kendo', but your overall kendo (You do want to improve your kendo, right?) and general health and wellbeing!.

Granted, it took me awhile to learn to use this new strength and power in kendo, but it has now enabled me to take a huge step forward, with comparatively little time spent on the dojo floor.

OK, it's something I will look into, you can all calm down. I'm not trying outright to be a curmudgeon here but it's difficult to pry me away from traditional Japanese methods when it comes to kendo/budo. That is one of a few reasons, some of which I have expressed here.

[dillon]

if this doesn't convince, what can?

[Fudo-Shin]

Ha ha, couldn't rep you but I am now converted!