Formal Wear

[dillon]

As I don't see anyone doing embu in a gradient hakama, I was being somewhat ironic posting those... They are shall we say, a bit shiny. Whatever floats your shinsa's boat though.

The low cost is because it's a rental (レンタル), not a for purchase offer. Japanese wedding costume rentals cost A LOT.

This is Rakuten's international site in English for men's kimono sets:

http://global.rakuten.com/en/categor...no/kimono_set/

Note that many are rental. Also, I would really double check if the hakama are divided or not. I suspect many of them are not. And I agree with ryoma, I would be suspicious about their suitability for iai. I only posted the gradient hakama for tongue in cheek illustrative purposes.

[Kim Taylor]

Did every one of my grades in my usual training gear as far as I can remember, but we're hicks out in the sticks in these parts. I've never actually come across any mention of dress code in the ZNKR except for a requirement to wear the usual training gear in gradings. That said, montsuki seems to be "leaking in" at the upper grades so maybe the federation should clarify the rule.

Me, I figure the higher the rank the more worn the outfit... clean, mended, but used. Gradings are just another practice and buying a new outfit if you don't need one is wasteful.

Kim.

[sirius1906]

If this is actually Scully's dojo then this is not ZNIR but DNIR (Dai Nippon Iaido Renmei). The english translation of "All Japan Iaido Federation" might be misleading.

I do not know what you mean by "fancy dress". AFAIK the requirement for dan-grade testing is to wear a Gi with O-sode (the big sleeves). I am not clear if mon are required. Sorry for my use of "montsuki" as it implies a Gi with mon, that was not my intention. Just a Gi with big sleeves.
Hakama is definitely not a grey striped one for lower dan-grades. A normal black hakama is just fine.
But again, I have no idea what DNIR requirements are. These rakuten offers might be nice looking but certainly NOT meant for Iai practice or even grading...

I thought Zen Nihon Iaido Renmei = All Japan Iaido Federation. By "fancy" I meant big sleeve, montsuki, striped hakama...basically anything more than the simple black or white practice attire. I share the same opinion as the ZNKR affiliated iaidoka here, that "fancy" clothes is only optional for high ranking (6 dan+) sensei's shinsa and embu.

[Rennis]

According to Scully's profile, he is in ZNIR. http://www.seishinkan-iaido.org/pages/dojos.html
@ryoma, are you saying ZNIR requires montsuki and fancy dress for dan tests?

The majority of people testing in the ZNIR wear montsuki in tests from shodan on up, but it is not required either at the lower levels and you see some standard keikogi from some dojo. The ZNIR does have rather specific guidelines on things like tabi and the like as you get higher up the ladder. As I understand the situation, the DNIR broke off from the ZNIR and it appears they maintained some of the uniform policies, but also altered and regulated them further.

[Scully]

The majority of people testing in the ZNIR wear montsuki in tests from shodan on up, but it is not required either at the lower levels and you see some standard keikogi from some dojo. The ZNIR does have rather specific guidelines on things like tabi and the like as you get higher up the ladder. As I understand the situation, the DNIR broke off from the ZNIR and it appears they maintained some of the uniform policies, but also altered and regulated them further.

Did some research and went digging,
my old pamphlete I got when I first started iaido gives very good guide lines,
I may have to change my profile or get a better idea of all the renmei in the way of iaido becuase it looks like i'v got it wrong,
I'm in Dai Nippon Iaido Renmei,
The uniform is very clear,
Dangai - nidan wear white dogi and black hakama (variations of obi) for normal training uniform.
Dangai - 5thdan may wear black montsuki with black or blaacki/grey striped hakama with white tabi (no other colours)
Nidan - 7th may wear black dogi and hakama with black obi, for normal training uniform.
Nidan - 7th may wear a dark coloured montsuki and hakama (example, nathan brunt from melbourne wears indigo montsuki and hakama) above 7th dan here is no uniform policy.
I asked sensei if it was required, he said for dangai it isn't REQUIRED but more recommend, apparantly presentation is also very important as well as your waza demonstration, much like the theory tests.

Oh and he gradient hakama,
I really feel like an idiot now, apologies.

Scully

[Peter West]

Did every one of my grades in my usual training gear as far as I can remember, but we're hicks out in the sticks in these parts. I've never actually come across any mention of dress code in the ZNKR except for a requirement to wear the usual training gear in gradings. That said, montsuki seems to be "leaking in" at the upper grades so maybe the federation should clarify the rule.

Me, I figure the higher the rank the more worn the outfit... clean, mended, but used. Gradings are just another practice and buying a new outfit if you don't need one is wasteful.

Kim.

This is a rare occasion where we disagree, respectfully, because I see and understand your point of view. However, for 6Dan + the "grading" is an examination of how you present a performance of iaido. In this respect it is a performance, and all aesthetic considerations are part of the picture. Looking good as well as being good. At this level it is not so much a presentation of how well you can do the kata, but of the kata itself presented through you. For this reason Montsuki Hakama, which has ALWAYS been recommended (never required, but neither has it recently leaked in) is now part of the overall presentation. Not just the item itself, but how well it is worn, and to that end how well it fits. Just as one would most likely not turn up at a friends wedding in one's work overalls, so one would not present for nanadan or hachidan in ones worn out training gi.

[Kim Taylor]

Well I don't think you'd get much argument from anyone who knows me Peter, that I'm not the one to ask about dress codes.

My sensei still shakes his head every time he sees my hakama himo swinging as I walk onto the floor. I SWEAR I got that from him!

Kim.

[satsumaruma]

As a slight aside.

I was reading through this and got to thinking about the use of language and how easy it is to use words in differing ways. One here was 'uniform'. Peter quite rightly pointed out that the hakama and gi we wear when practising iaido is not a Uniform in the sense of something worn for specific purpose but actually general everday (albeit historic/traditional) clothing as worn in Japan.

BUT. It could be considered as 'uniform' when we take that word to imply some consistency in what practitioners are required to wear; to provide uniformity, as it were. For grading at any level up to 5dan ( at least this is what I hear at seminars here in the UK) the requirement is to wear Gi, obi, hakama all of the same colour (mostly black or white). This provides uniformity so becomes a de facto uniform.

Sorry to deviate from the conversation a bit but it piqued my interest in that the word uniform was both correct and incorrect at the same time.

I just love the bonkers-ness of the English language!

[Kim Taylor]

I just love the bonkers-ness of the English language!

You mean the way it's contextual?

Kim.

[satsumaruma]

You mean the way it's contextual?

Kim.

Sort of but it's also interesting that the way we say words can make a difference to them and the way the same word can mean to opposite. EG

Bad means both a negative and a positive thing. So does wicked.

And sometimes one has to be aware of local word useage.

"Smoking a fag" can mean very different things to the British and Americans!!!

I think the best example of this (which is not contextual) is the story about Mohammed El Fayed (apologies to him if this is not true but it is certainly ascribed to him as true).

He was allegedly having a rant at his staff one day who he felt were laughing behind his back at his grasp of the English language. He shouted at them..
" ...and I will tell you another thing. You think I know f*ck nothing but you are wrong, I know f*ck all"

Priceless

[chidokan]

I got shouted at a few years ago for turning up in a gi that, errrmmm, used to fit me quite well....even though it was a 'hard graft training day', and Iwata s. had his usual blue repaired gi on, I was expected to be dressed better as a 'foreign senior student' and show my iai as Peter mentioned above. Dress codes are a little over the top sometimes, but so long as you are smart and neat when demonstrating, that is what is really expected. I usually practise in montsuki as it gives away any unwanted movement, and reminds me to be a bit more smooth and careful.

(this thread reminds me I need to get some clan Hamilton tartan for my new gi/obi/hakama.....)

[Reiver]

(this thread reminds me I need to get some clan Hamilton tartan for my new gi/obi/hakama.....)

This has reminded me. Some years ago at a summer seminar, someone turned up in a tartan hakama that he had specially commisioned. He was run out of the dojo very quickly.

[pgsmith]

He was run out of the dojo very quickly.

And well he should have been! Everyone knows that tartan is for mini-skirts only, not for long dresses!

[satsumaruma]

This has reminded me. Some years ago at a summer seminar, someone turned up in a tartan hakama that he had specially commisioned. He was run out of the dojo very quickly.

He is still training; 3rd dan now I think.

Thankfully, the tartan hakama has gone. Personally I liked it but I think I was in a minority.

And well he should have been! Everyone knows that tartan is for mini-skirts only, not for long dresses!

And for the top of novelty boxes and tins from Edinburgh.

[Scully]

I got shouted at a few years ago for turning up in a gi that, errrmmm, used to fit me quite well....even though it was a 'hard graft training day', and Iwata s. had his usual blue repaired gi on, I was expected to be dressed better as a 'foreign senior student' and show my iai as Peter mentioned above. Dress codes are a little over the top sometimes, but so long as you are smart and neat when demonstrating, that is what is really expected. I usually practise in montsuki as it gives away any unwanted movement, and reminds me to be a bit more smooth and careful.

(this thread reminds me I need to get some clan Hamilton tartan for my new gi/obi/hakama.....)

I may request special permission to wear Montsuki for regular practise when mine arrives,
Since I study iai from a more philosophical view, wearing a kimono makes more sense than a gi, especially in the way of tradition.