ChibaBogu

[DCPan]

it must be excellent. $2000 for the 6mm machine stiched bogu... it MUST be excellent!!!

Funny…

Seriously, I was curious enough that I actually made an international call to Japan to discuss this further with Mr. Komoto. According to him, some members of the Japanese team actually wore the “Mine” while competing at Worlds.

The famous Ishida sensei also wears a Mine for regular practice and competition now, as well as several famous persona as Alex mentioned.

As discussed in Kendo Nippon, April 2004 issue, there’s a misperception that closer-stitching is “better”.

For example, I wear 1.0bu bogu right now. The way hand-stitching is done, the bogu exterior surface has these bumps that are raised by the stitching method. Now, imagine bubble wrap…wouldn’t you think there is a margin of diminishing return with “tighter” bumps?

Also, as the stitching gets tighter, the bogu gets STIFFER…frankly, I’d go for 1.2bu and 1.5bu…but as it was a gift, my mom was pretty insistent on getting me the “best”…and no way I’m complaining about that, though I did try to convince her to save money and “just” get me a 1.5bu…for my credit.

Good bogu should be soft and flexible (for molding to your body contour) as cloth WITH high point-pressure resistance…that’s true good bogu…with flexibility to spread the impact…think old steel car vs. new car with regenerating bumpers….

Similar misconceptions involve the ashi on the komune of the doh. There’s a misperception that sanbon-ashi (3-leg embroidery) is “better” than nihon-ashi (2-leg embroidery) because it cost more. It cost MORE because of more labor…that’s different from better. You should pick a komune consistent with your TORSO length…if you have long torso, you’d want sanbon-ashi…if you have short torso, you’d want ippon-ashi…simple.

Now, something more on topic, Chiba Bogu’s service.

Mr. Komoto speaks perfect English.

He allowed me to pick EVERYTHING. I picked the width and length of the men-futon, with their recommendation of course.

I was able to pick the material of the grill (dura-aluminum, titanium, or IBB).

I was able to pick the ago embroidery pattern, the ago trim color and style (green flower, brown flower, blue indigo plain), color of kazari (cord embroidery) and color of thread used to stitch kazari on, the thread color used to stitch the “tenchi” (the top and bottom base of the men ring).

I was also able to ask them to adjust the men-ring width so my glasses can be worn underneath. They are going to tightly stitch the men-ring near the mono-mi, so I don’t have to wear an over-sized men like the one I have currently.

It was simply custom to the end! They even offered to match it to my previous 3mm set exactly stylistically, if I send them digital pictures. I had another design in mind, so I didn’t take it up…but WOW!!!!

To top it off, I got all this with a huge sticker price difference from another place that didn’t offer any of this customization, yet cost more (I calculated everything, including shipping and handling cost).

Truly, I have NEVER had a more pleasant shopping experience…and I do shop around!

I look forward to getting my new MINE men.

[Hai_hai]

...He allowed me to pick EVERYTHING. I picked the width and length of the men-futon, with their recommendation of course.

I was able to pick the material of the grill (dura-aluminum, titanium, or IBB).

I was able to pick the ago embroidery pattern, the ago trim color and style (green flower, brown flower, blue indigo plain), color of kazari (cord embroidery) and color of thread used to stitch kazari on, the thread color used to stitch the “tenchi” (the top and bottom base of the men ring).

I was also able to ask them to adjust the men-ring width so my glasses can be worn underneath. They are going to tightly stitch the men-ring near the mono-mi, so I don’t have to wear an over-sized men like the one I have currently...

Basically, you picked a rich-boy show-off bogu.

[DCPan]

Basically, you picked a rich-boy show-off bogu.

LOL!

Actually, I picked all indigo trim...so, it'll be plain as can be, with "batten" X-Kasari instead of an embroidery pattern. Mr. Komoto called it the "work horse design".

Besides, Hai Hai, you wouldn't feel so poor if you had more KOKORO.

[moetl]

hi DC Pan,
i really enjoyed reading your post. it was very informative ^^

i am about to purchase bogu and was thinking to get the s-17 set from koei.
i chose this set, because
* it's supported with sorbothane on the men and kote (i expect this to absorb shock very good ^^)
* cost is distributed as it's often recommended (as much money on men and kote, less on do and tare)
* has deerskin palms on kote (nowhere else, so no rich-girl-show-off bogu )
* and 4.5mm stiching seems appropriate to me

it costs about 500USD, the utter most i would like to spend on bogu.

since the question of whether close stiching is good has recently turned out to be negated i am even more convinced to buy this set.

do you think sorbothane padding pays it's price?
what do you think in general about this set?

thank you all for comments in advance
and sorry for hijacking the thread ^^

[JSchmidt]

For example, I wear 1.0bu bogu right now. The way hand-stitching is done, the bogu exterior surface has these bumps that are raised by the stitching method. Now, imagine bubble wrap…wouldn’t you think there is a margin of diminishing return with “tighter” bumps?

That all depends. With tighter bumps, there's more bumbs to absorb the impact.
In any case, this is an interesting thread, especially as I'm planning to buy a new men within the next couple of months. (And yes, it will be a rich-boy show-off men)

Jakob

[DCPan]

hi DC Pan,

since the question of whether close stiching is good has recently turned out to be negated i am even more convinced to buy this set.

do you think sorbothane padding pays it's price?
what do you think in general about this set?

thank you all for comments in advance
and sorry for hijacking the thread ^^

Hey, no problem

Honestly, I've not had the chance to use bogu with sorbothane inserts stitched into the futon like the KOEI sets. So, I don't have an opinion on that.

I am currently using an external sorbothane men pad underneath my men though. It seems to work great.

That all depends. With tighter bumps, there's more bumbs to absorb the impact.

Jakob

But the pressure per area of the contact changes the dynamic of the strike.

Also, you could be sacrificing flexibility of bogu for it.

There's no one right answer for this, btw.

After all, the MINE bogu is designed to be at that stitch width with different layers of materials.

So, I don't want people to think that one stitch width is definitely better than another.

The craftsman and materials used will change how the whole thing turns out.

With some materials, you'd probably want close stitching to achieve a certain effect.

I'll let people know what I think when I've actually had a chance to wear it!

[JSchmidt]

But the pressure per area of the contact changes the dynamic of the strike.

Also, you could be sacrificing flexibility of bogu for it.

There's no one right answer for this, btw.

Well, there probably is a right answer, but it would take a lot of experiementing, something I can't afford .
We've got a couple of people in our dojo, who have just ordered from Hakkado..I'm looking forward to seeing them...I'm sort of leaning that way in the moment. What's the production time on your bogu from Chiba?

Cheers,

Jakob

[DCPan]

Well, there probably is a right answer, but it would take a lot of experiementing, something I can't afford .

No kidding!

However, my suggestion is that not everyone wants the same thing anyway.

Some people think bogu should be this way while others think they should be that way...etc.

Similarly, optimum stitching width may different, depending on whether you are stitching mosen, sorbothane, etc....

We've got a couple of people in our dojo, who have just ordered from Hakkado..I'm looking forward to seeing them...I'm sort of leaning that way in the moment. What's the production time on your bogu from Chiba?

How did you do that? Do you have someone who speaks Japanese facilitating the order?

I was originally leaning toward the A-1 Tokuren Men from Kanagawa Hakkodo. But the ease of getting info from Chibabogu and the other vendor won me over.

I didn't even see the A-1 Tokuren Men listed on their website from Kendo Nippon.

I'll get a production time estimate soon...I thought it was something like 30 or 60 days...

[Kent Enfield]

do you think sorbothane padding pays it's price?
what do you think in general about this set?

I have sorbothane in my kote and men. I'm not sure which set they're from. When I purchased my bogu, essentially I said, "Sensei, here's how much I can spend. What's the best combination I can get?" and he got it. I know I have 4mm kote and a 5mm men. In the four years I've had the set, I can't remember ever experiencing pain when struck properly on the kote buton, where the sorbothane is. Across the knuckles or across the joint proper still hurts of course. Occasionally, I get my bell rung when people strike men, particularly if they strike deep. You can definitely tell the difference when they strike past the sorbothane. On the other hand, I'm fairly tall, so people don't strike over the top of my men very often.

The only downside of my kote is that the kote buton is *very* stiff. That isn't much of a concern though, because they fit well and that part of my arm doesn't bend anyway.

[JSchmidt]

How did you do that? Do you have someone who speaks Japanese facilitating the order?

Yes. We had a rep from Hakkado come over 3 years ago (Who actually joined our practice a couple of times) and since then our Japanese sempai has taken care of the orders. I bought their #7000 hakama and keiko-gi and even after 3 years, it barely shows any sign of wear.
It's only recently, however, that we've started ordering bogu through them.

Jakob

[moetl]

Kent Enfield, thank you very much for your reply! was it a set from koei?

further comments welcome ^^

[Kent Enfield]

Kent Enfield, thank you very much for your reply! was it a set from koei?

Sorry, yes it is.

[Hai_hai]

I just downloaded their catalog. It's all expensive. Looks good. Perforated kote palms, interesting idea.

[Genshi]

Yes. We had a rep from Hakkado come over 3 years ago (Who actually joined our practice a couple of times) and since then our Japanese sempai has taken care of the orders. I bought their #7000 hakama and keiko-gi and even after 3 years, it barely shows any sign of wear.
It's only recently, however, that we've started ordering bogu through them.

Jakob

Hello, Jacob. Is there a Japanese website for Hakkado? I would like to check out their products.

[Taek]

Yes, nice catalogue and nice looking bogus but hmmm......over 200.000 yen for 6mm machine stitched bogu!!?? I'm sure it must be very good since already many good kendo senseis and sempais guarantee the quality but bit hard to change the general perception of what good bogu has been -you know all that 1 bu and 1.2 bu handstitched.