Jodan kote?

[deathbykendo]

I was wondering how jodan players hit kote?

Especially if your opponent's kote is covered, like in the sega (spelling??)kamae, where from chudan they point the tip of their shinai at your left kote.

Kirby

[Inouye02]

maybe tenken will see this and respond...

[samurai999]

Of course hitting kote is different for everybody in jodan nonetheless chudan, but from what I experienced, they usually hit kote almost perpendicular to your arm. Otherwise, you'd have to move to the left to hit kote. Like Jamie said, maybe tenken can chime in.

Tim

[Neil Gendzwill]

Usually, the strike comes in pretty straight but at the last instant, they rotate their hand out which creates the right angle to hit the kote.

My experience is that you need to get the aite moving. If his kensen is aimed at the circle created by your arms in jodan, then he's got his men and his kote protected fairly equally. If you get him moving towards the outside, men is vulnerable. If you get him moving to the inside, kote is vulnerable. But I'm just a part time jodan guy, Tenken or someone else probably has a lot better advice.

[rfoxmich]

I was shown three ways to hit. Most involved moving at least a bit to the left.
- Straight cut is straight down to the kote. Body moves out to the left
slightly on the left foot, then back in to the center with the right foot usually
into tsuba zeriai
- Outside - As Neil said, as you come in (same footwork as above), the
left elbow comes out slightly, the wrist points in back to the center to
hit the kote.. seems easy but getting correct hasuji is a bear.
- Inside - Same foot work again, but in this case, the left wrist rolls a bit as
if you were hitting sayu hidari men. This helps clear the opponent's kamae
and the cut then comes in behind the kamae to the kote... also really
tough to get the hasuji just right.

Ron.

[Kendoka]

I was wondering how jodan players hit kote?

Especially if your opponent's kote is covered, like in the sega (spelling??)kamae, where from chudan they point the tip of their shinai at your left kote.

Kirby

!! YOU need to ask ????

Richard

[Kendoka]

... what I meant is - well, you are rather good at katate kote from jodan !

R;

[Nanbanjin]

I was wondering how jodan players hit kote?

Especially if your opponent's kote is covered, like in the sega (spelling??)kamae, where from chudan they point the tip of their shinai at your left kote.

Kirby

I think you mean "heisei-gan".

A few people have suggested that you should hit around the shinai, so you hit perpendicular to the opponent's kote. I am not a big fan of this type of kote and I put it into the "OK for competitions" category.
As with kote cuts from chudan I feel the ideal is to hit straight, with the same action as for when you hit men. There is no "going around" your opponent's kamae. If there is an opening, take it. Otherwise, make an opening or wait for one.

As a general rule, if you can see your opponent's kote you should be able to hit it straight.
I have also read that if your opponent is using heisei-gan, you can hit kote if their kensen strays anywhere inside the line of your left kote.
Another suggestion I have read is that to "get around" heisei-gan you might move your left fist out a little before you cut. The line of your shinai should follow the line of your opponent's all the way down from the beginning of the cut to the point of impact with the kote.

When I have time I read the Ichinikai forums. There is often very good advice. I will translate a small section that I think you might find useful.

片手の打突を覚える際に、まず、上段からの諸手（両手）の素振りをしましょう。

　１）諸手左上段から、
　２）左右の拳の位置をカラダの正中線（中心）に戻すして
　３）まっすぐに面に下ろします。カラダの移動は右足蹴り出しで左足から前に
　　　出ます
　４）右足から後ろにさがって諸手左上段にとります。

これがうまくできるようになったら、３）で左片手にして打ってみます。このと
き右手はすぐに放してしまわないで、右拳が額の前に来るまで持っていて「押し
手」として使います。額の前まできたら、そこで手を放し右手は軽く握って胴の
タイコに付けます。左手はそのまま前方に伸ばして面の高さで止めます。

これが基本の面打ちです。横からではなくて、左拳が正中線に入り真っすぐ打っ
ているから平正眼に引っ掛からないで打てるんです。
まず、このコースと振り方を、素振りでしっかりと身につけてから、実際に元立
ちに対して面打ちの稽古をするようにしてください。最初から、打ち込みをする
と手の内やコースが悪くなりますから、気をつけましょう(^^)

(More or less) Translates as...



In order to learn one handed techniques you should first practice morote (both handed) suburi from jodan.

1. From morote left jodan
2. Return the position of your left and right fists to the dead centre line of your body
3. Swing straight down to men. To move your body kick out with the right leg, moving forward from the left leg
4. Retreat from the right leg back into morote left jodan position

Once you can do this well, let go with your right hand at step 3 to hit kata-te. Don't let go with your right hand straight away. Instead, wait until the right hand is in front of your forehead and use it as a "pushing hand (oshi-te)".

At the point where your right and is in front of your forehead let go with your right hand and close your right fist lightly, bringing your fist down against the "drum" of your Do. Straighten the left arm out directly in front and stop at the height of your men.

This is basic men-uchi. You don't hit from the side. Your left fist enters the centre line and you hit straight, so you can hit without becoming tangled up with heisei-gan.
Start by mastering this type of suburi and progress to practicing against a moto-dachi.
When you start practicing this technique your te-no-uchi and the course of your shinai will become uneven when you hit so keep this in mind.




The thread goes on to say (too tired to translate directly) that to hit kote when your opponent is using heiseigan you should move your left fist to the left. Logically if you move your left fist outside the line of your opponent's kensen you should be able to hit kote. You should follow the line of your opponent's shinai, steping to the left diagonal slightly.
The thread does end by saying that in practice you might hit a little differently, which I think alludes to the type of hit where you roll your wrist when you hit so the back of your hand faces upwards.
Rolling your wrist when you hit requires arm strength, which I am sure you have plenty of. It might not be

Anyway, the purist in me thinks you should master hitting straight. Use the rolling wrist technique for competitions if you find it effective.

I translated a heap of stuff about jodan at the following thread

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1715

The more I read my translations the more they sound to me like the dialogue from the Iron Chef.

[D'Artagnan]

I was wondering how jodan players hit kote?

Especially if your opponent's kote is covered, like in the sega (spelling??)kamae, where from chudan they point the tip of their shinai at your left kote.

Kirby

You're taking the piss aren't you?

You are the guy from those ACT videos...

[Yann]

The (atleast) 4 dan Jodan player who 0wnz everybody...

[Yann]

(>'-')> Smith...

(Ok that was lame)

[JSchmidt]

I was wondering how jodan players hit kote?

Especially if your opponent's kote is covered, like in the sega (spelling??)kamae, where from chudan they point the tip of their shinai at your left kote.

Kirby

I'm nowhere near the level of your jodan, but I've been taught that you can't hit kote without forcing the opponent to move his hands. (When he/she is using seigan).

Anyway, the purist in me thinks you should master hitting straight. Use the rolling wrist technique for competitions if you find it effective.

This is virtually impossible, IMO, unless you are playing against a very in-experienced opponent.
Virtually all the references I've seen and from what I've been taught, involves moving to the left and/or rolling the wrist.

Jakob

[Vansen]

You're taking the piss aren't you?

You are the guy from those ACT videos...

LOL. The original question was posted before the ACT comp.
I guess we are seeing the fruits of the suggestions posted in the forum, being executed in the vids.

The next comp on the eastern seaboard of Australia is in early August. So if DeathbyKendo ask for more suggestions, please provide him with as much information as possible. Maybe we see him play in Wakki-gakame

[Nanbanjin]

This is virtually impossible, IMO, unless you are playing against a very in-experienced opponent.
Virtually all the references I've seen and from what I've been taught, involves moving to the left and/or rolling the wrist.

Jakob

It's just as impossible to hit kote dead straight from chudan if your opponent is holding sei-chudan-no-kamae. As with chudan-no-kamae the target needs to be there for you to hit.
To hit kote from jodan the opponent's kensen needs to be inside the line of your left fist.
For this to happen you can move you left hand a little to the left, but if the movement is too big it becomes obvious. Taking things to the extreme your opponent could have a kamae where the kensen is way outside your left fist. In that case hit men instead of kote.
That leads to the next way of getting your opponents kensen inside your left fist. Draw the kensen in by hitting kote as though you are going for men.
Stepping slightly to the left as you go forward is another way of gaining the opening.
Hitting by rolling your wrist is just one way of hitting. Striking in a straight line takes more skill.
Maybe this deathbykendo person is good enough to give it a try.
If people don't stop kissing his arse he won't even be able to walk straight.

[JSchmidt]

Just curious, have you played jodan much?

Jakob