Jodan - How to counter

[Ross]

Hi

In Keiko, my Sensei often likes to go into Jodan. Now it is my place to attack him but I just can't figure out where an how. As soon as my kensen moves, he makes a men.

I have tried for kote (both sides) - I thought about Do, but no chance and I am not exposing myself to his cut - I thought men would be best, try to get it just before he gets mine, but nope, no luck.

Any advice what to try... I am obviously no match for him and I am 100 times slower, but would like to try something to get there and not just get hit.

Tonight I was thinking of ichitoshi (spelling) do...... will let you know how hammered I get

[cst]

Try a tsuki one or 2 handed than block\counter to men...

[hamish]

Just stay in his face and keep up your seme, attack and don't let him get comfortable in jodan. How long have you been doing kendo, anyway?

[Will]

Try a tsuki one or 2 handed than block\counter to men...

tsuki isn't really a proper attack to use against your sensei

[Neil Gendzwill]

Always ask first with your sensei, but IMHO taking jodan pretty much invites tsuki. If you feel your student is ready to fight against your jodan, you ought to think him ready to use tsuki as well. I'd like to hear if anyone thinks differently on this point.

[LNGUYEN]

Then another question, I am not Shodan yet so technically, I can't use Tsuki. Last weekend, one of my Sensei start Jodan against me, can I use Tsuki or just concentrate on other technique like Men, Kote, and Do?

[junkyman]

Set a trap. Leave your kote open and wait for him to go for it. I can't think of the name of the waza but as soon as he tries for the kote pull it in and up so he misses and the go for men. The momentum from his jodan strike will make it hard to recover from that miss in time to do much about it if you time it right. This works against nito as well.

[Cheese_Man]

Set a trap. Leave your kote open and wait for him to go for it. I can't think of the name of the waza but as soon as he tries for the kote pull it in and up so he misses and the go for men. The momentum from his jodan strike will make it hard to recover from that miss in time to do much about it if you time it right. This works against nito as well.

Yeah thats a great waza its called kote nuki men, i havent had a whole lot of experience fighting jodan or nito guys but from what litlte i have ive learned that you need to constantly keep moving and watch your distance if they are in jodan its always good to move more to your right htat way you cover the kote and they have to constantly get re setup for the attack leavinv them exposed or out of sync just IMO

[Neil Gendzwill]

Oddly enough that very same trap works extremely well the other way around - hidari kote looks very tempting to the chudan player, and all the jodan player need due to avoid it is lift his hands a bit. Then the men comes down pretty quick and hard.

[MaxPayneWayne]

Set a trap. Leave your kote open and wait for him to go for it. I can't think of the name of the waza but as soon as he tries for the kote pull it in and up so he misses and the go for men. The momentum from his jodan strike will make it hard to recover from that miss in time to do much about it if you time it right. This works against nito as well.

Only problem is is that the other guy can be setting a trap for you and you won't even know it. I can usually tell when people open up their kote for me, though it doesn't happen very often. If your opponent knows you are setting him up, he can in turn use that to his advantdage, i.e. do a fake kote, expect your reaction, and hit you. Or he can just go for the men while you're expecting the kote.

[yangs]

It is not proper and rude to tsuki your sensei. My sempais, when taching us tsuki, always warning us not to use tuski agaisnt any sensei before the sensei use it first. I don't really know the why, but since my semapis who are nidan and sandan, never use tsuki against senseis, I think it better not to use it.

To attack a jodan player, one of my sempai suggest aim your sword at his left kote instead of his tuski. Since jodan player have longer maai, chudan tsuki is not really a threat to him. And this give you faster blocking time and will put preasures on your opponent since the easiest target is left kote. His men is blocked by his arms, so there is no point going for men and watch for his "opening do". Since jodan player have faster attacking speed and longer range, it is hard to get into a good range to strike his do.

Like people above says, try to use the chance after he strikes. My sempai says jodan player usually have longer recovery time especially the one strike with only left hand. So I think wait might be the best thing to do. Get closer and closer to him and watch out for his dogging by walking backward. I always get hit by that move.

[moocow65]

I don't think it's improper to do tsuki on a sensei especially if they do jodan. As long as you've properly practiced doing tsuki before doing it during keiko, I see no problem with it. Most people do tsuki in keiko without practicing it on a dummy beforehand. That it why tsuki is dangerous, because idiots try to do it during keiko without having an idea on doing it properly. I think it just discourages people from doing tsuki if people think this way. I did a yokomen on Takahashi Sensei (Japan Team Head Coach) when I was 18 and a 2-dan. He saw no problem with it, and he actually smiled. Sure enough he threw one at me and I ducked to avoid it. We both had alot of fun. As long as you can do a strike properly, I say go for it. If your sensei gets mad, then I think the sensei has a problem. Afterall, tsuki is a valid point in kendo. Why not learn and practice it?

[kendokamax]

yup

Totaly agree with moocow.

My teacher in Budai actually asked us to do tsuki more often in keiko,

only thing is to be carefull, dont do tsuki or big taitari(??) on old sensei (75 and up), I mean dont try to brutalize them. But 50-60 years old sensei is just fine I think!

[Ross]

I should have put my rank here, I am only 4th kyu at the moment and have been told not to tsuki.

Last night we did a lot of nuki-men in practice so when it came to keiko and sensei went into Jodan quite early, I was patient and when he made his cut, I steped back a little and countered. The men was not to good, and glanced off the side, but I did not get cut and I was closer than before.

Thanks for all the other replys... I will keep them in mind next time and see if I can get a cleaner men..... if I have time to think about it.. lol

PS: last night was the first time Sensei used tsuki against me..... luckey I had just started moving left and it missed....... was close though.

[Shazzanzzz]

if someone goes for a tsuki, if you can't block/deflect it, let them hit it... i mean, you want them to hit it, else it's gonna hurt!

Just pressure the jodan player, from my experience, they are more susceptible to pressure, since they don't want you to get close to them. If they're pressured, everything else is easy.