Hi all. Being a newbie to kendo (9 months), I'm wondering if there are any waza dedicated to disarming the opponents shinai? Preferably from chudan no kamae.
Sorry if this has been discussed to death, I couldn't find anything when I did a quick search. I'd appreciate detailed examples and explanations if you guys could ofer them.
Old Style
My understanding is that such waza were eliminated from Kendo in the post-WWII reformulation of Kendo.Originally Posted by ECL
Apparently, pre-war Kendo is still practiced within some Koryu Dojo such as Hokushin Itto Ryu. However, do not expect to see these waza in any Kendo Shiai; these formerly acceptable waza are now considered fouls in the rules of post-war Kendo.
HTH,
Raymond Sosnowski
Aikido, wing chun etc all have disarming techniques that can be used when in close to your armed opponent.
In kendo, from chudan you could try uchi otoshi ie., cut down on to the shinai to knock it out of the opponents hands.
Richard
I heard from my sensei that in old school kendo (pre-WWII) that getting your men knocked off your head was a penalty point for you! Also, from what I heard, there were takedowns as well before that was outlawed. Not sure about the accuracy of my statements tho.
In terms of disarming an opponent, you could do that resulting in a hansoku for your opponent. There is one where you do a loop-da-loop with the shinai and "twirl" your opponents shinai out of their hands if they have a weak kamae. This is the best I can explain it. You'll need some visuals on this one.
I have caught people doing tsuki and missing. One time, his shinai got stuck to my armpit, I caught it, got my shinai under it and flung it across the dojo.However, i have not heard any specific names for these "techniques".
Tim
Last edited by samurai999; 13th May 2004 at 03:16 PM.
Wow, I had no idea that would be a foul. I guess you learn something everyday after all.
If you do an uchi or harai technique and knock the shinai out of the opponents hands in shiai is that still a foul? For example if you were to do harai men and knocked the shinai out of the opponents hand and then hit their men.
Any time you or your opponent drops their shinai, it is a hansoku for the person who drops their shinai.
In the example you give, If I read you correctly on your waza, there is a chance for you to get a men if you hit it quickly enough. Basically, you knock your opponents shinai down and in addition, you get the "continuation" which is the men.
It is sorta analogous to getting a continuation call in bball where the guy commits a touch foul and the person who gets fouled scores a bucket.
Tim
Some wine, soft music, candle-lit atmosphere, snuggling.
Black Belt from the Karate Institute of Karate
Try something like this:
http://www.e-budo.com/pics/kendo.wmv
Good luck
We practice the one in the video on a regular basis (last night - as a matter of fact).
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“The pen is mightier than the sword – NOT”
There is nothing in the rules against disarming techniques, quite the opposite in fact. If your opponent drops his shinai, you get a free shot at him. If your attack is unsuccessful, your opponent gets the penalty.
There is one restriction - you must use the blade portion of your shinai for any such action. You can't, for example, slip your left hand up the tsuka while in tsuba-zeriai and use the butt end to strip the shinai from your opponent's hands.
Neil Gendzwill
Saskatoon Kendo Club
Still is the case in some dojos, when the shinais have been lost, the way to then win is to remove your opponents men, if you can. Usually the oppoonents end up wrestling on the floor. Ugly.
I was footswept by an unnamed sensei (in fun) but it showed me how effective it could be.
Techniques such as that now belong in the unarmed fighting area, something like aikido, I guess as kendo is the "way of the sword".
That waza is called maki otoshi and is quite effective, it can send the shinai flying !!
Richard
I definitely love that disarming video...
The way this was explained to me is that Kendo developed out of training techniques for situations where the loser died, so the person who would be dead gets a penalty. If you knock the sword out of your oppenents hands in a duel, they'll get a "penalty" alright. Same for pushing your opponent out-of-bounds, if you push somebody over something that trips them on a battle field, nothing bad happens to you, they're the one that loses a body part.
Thank you for clarifying that point, Neil. I have checked my reference, and discovered that I had misremembered the items.
Raymond Sosnowski
Just recently our dojo had the privilage to host a yodan sensei for a weekend, and he taught the whole dojo alot of tsuba zarai waza. One of them was to cut small hiki men, then bash the opponents shinai, then by that time, your at a beutiful distance for a nice shomen.
It happens like kote men- all consecutive, and each strike (ie. small hiki men, smashing of the opponents shinai and the shomen) all have a step. He also was demonstrating how tenuchi applied to blocks and such, and it works fabulously against those cocky beginers who like to push in tsuba zarai
As always, your fashionably expected, but casually late...
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