Hmm...sounds more like heijoshin to me....Originally Posted by Karaken
Hmm...sounds more like heijoshin to me....
How does Zanshin relate to the Zen concept of "Mushin no Shin" - The Mind of No-Mind.
Are they synonymous or is one a subset of the other?
crabbi
Mike Forte
Portsmouth Kendo Club - UK
..."The crab must go through life walking sideways.
This is much like our lives - we find that life causes us to turn this way and that and our path is never straight and clear. We must move sideways.
The crab must do this all his life and his body accommodates this. . . so brave to resign his life to such a Fate.
Ultimately, the crab represents the Life we must all lead and how, more often than not, we must accept our Karma..."
I seem to have a knack for killing threads dead... is there a Kendo term for this?
Mike Forte
Portsmouth Kendo Club - UK
..."The crab must go through life walking sideways.
This is much like our lives - we find that life causes us to turn this way and that and our path is never straight and clear. We must move sideways.
The crab must do this all his life and his body accommodates this. . . so brave to resign his life to such a Fate.
Ultimately, the crab represents the Life we must all lead and how, more often than not, we must accept our Karma..."
.... another one bites the dust....!
Mike Forte
Portsmouth Kendo Club - UK
..."The crab must go through life walking sideways.
This is much like our lives - we find that life causes us to turn this way and that and our path is never straight and clear. We must move sideways.
The crab must do this all his life and his body accommodates this. . . so brave to resign his life to such a Fate.
Ultimately, the crab represents the Life we must all lead and how, more often than not, we must accept our Karma..."
There is definitely a relation between the two.I think that the monk Takuan spoke of that in one of his writings to Yagyu Munenori, how to quite the mind and by that raising the spirit s alertness which is part of Zanshin.
Interesting observation... So in a way, as well as being complementary to Mushin No Shin.... Zanshin is, at the same time, almost opposite...? Perhaps they are two different sides of the same coin?Asside keiko, i would say seiza meditation helps a lot with the Zanshin ,by trying to keep the right body posture ,controling your breathing and making the effort to be aware of what s going on inside and outside of yourself and last but not least push the time limit each time because it s not a 10 minutes seiza that ll make your Zanshin expand.
When I have practiced mediatation in previous dojo, there is this fine balance between trying to be aware of nothing and yet constantly being aware that you are trying to do this... Do you find this internal phenomena a struggle or a focus for meditation? Or does no-one else feel this way?
crabbi
Last edited by crabbi; 9th November 2004 at 11:20 PM. Reason: typo
Mike Forte
Portsmouth Kendo Club - UK
..."The crab must go through life walking sideways.
This is much like our lives - we find that life causes us to turn this way and that and our path is never straight and clear. We must move sideways.
The crab must do this all his life and his body accommodates this. . . so brave to resign his life to such a Fate.
Ultimately, the crab represents the Life we must all lead and how, more often than not, we must accept our Karma..."
The AUSKF defines Zanshin on its Iaido link as such: "Zan-shin: The body posture and state of mind in which even after striking, one is alert and ready to respond instantly to any counterattack by the opponent. Zanshin is the state in which, after striking with full power and without hesitation, one faces the opponent with full spirit and with the ability to respond naturally." I think that this definition is pretty nice.
Zanshin, is basically making sure the opponent is dead or dying.
Seriously, zanshin was developed to make sure that you were aware that the opponent was dead.I agree with both mingshi and stakenaka here. Kata teaches it well and the basis for it comes from making sure your opponent has a mortal wound or if not you make sure of it with your next strike. Just as other have said above and before. But then again, thats just my opinion...
I think it s both ,let me put it this way ,if we take the gaze for instance which we also train by meditating ,we're told to focus on an imaginary point,at the same time we should be able to notice everything that can be seen by our eyes without moving them ,focusing on the whole picture without leaving the details (the leaf and tree example by Takuan or the looking at a far mountain concept by Musashi).Internalize the above ,of course it's a lifetime endeavourand you'll have yourself a spirit capable of light speed reaction.The goal is to adapt to any kind of situation as quickly as possible,nobody can do that without seeing the micro and macro sides of things.IMHO when it comes to the spirit we should try to explore and feel while meditating and have that same mindset as we're training and in life in general.
Hope i didn't slip out of subject in what i typed
cheers
Zanshin is not something reserved for Kendo.
I remember hearing it in daily conversation while growing up in Hong kong.
Literally, in chinese Zan (or Zhang rather) is a concatenation of the symbol for a bow (as in bow and arrow) with the symbol for grow. Ie Stretch.
For example Zhangkai means Open.
Xin means heart, or mind depending on how you pronounce it.
So think of it as stretch your heart/mind.
Or as Obi-Wan said to Luke: "Stretch out with your feelings Luke"
I agree with this but would like to add a little.
I was reading 'the unfettered mind' yesterday and was very interested in the concept of a state of no-mind. I thought I understood a little, however as I was driving into work this morning at one point instead of just normally changing up the gears after being stationary I actually thought about it. This caused more problems than you might think, I fumbled around for a bit and finally found the right gear.
This got me thinking about the concept of no-mind and how it works here; while driving I normally have a state of no-mind and all the skills come naturally (I still have full concentration on the road but dont have to think about it) as soon as I let my mind stop at changing gears the whole process of driving fell apart.
What I am trying to say, is that we need to strive for this kind of state while doing kendo, and do it without thinking so to speak. I belive that if you get to this position ,which may be impossible, then after the strike zanshin will follow naturally.
Hope this makes sense as its hard to get the point across in words.
'Life is like hakama. Occasionally, it trips you up'
Indeed ,it'll only make sense with many years of regular training .
The situation you had while driving your car is a good example.
IMHO it's all about making the waza we learn into reflexes which would only happen as i said before, with many years of regular practice.i think that's the first stage of maturity for a kenshi or a martial artist in general, in other words just the beguining of the journey
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