Pushing and Shoving during Shiai

[IYA KALI]

What is acceptable when it comes to pushing and shoving during Shiai? I was the ACT Kendo Comp (Australia) over the weekend and noticed there were some kyu grades blatently charging, pushing and shoving opponents around.

I guess it is acceptable when your opponent is inches from the boundary lines??? but I saw this one kyu grade participant attempting a men strike near the centre of the court and then continously charging, arms cocked out straight, towards the opponent, in a blatent attempt to push the opponent out of the court.

If one is going to use their body weight/height to ones advantage by charging at lighter-weights than should it not be fair for lighter-weights (or anyone for that matter) to use counter techniques such as tripping etc.

[Sentunim]

Well, the people at my dojo told me that you should try and go striaght through, it is the other persons obligation to get out of the. They also mentioned that i think if its not blatantly pushing someone, if you push them out of the area you get an extra half point, right?

I don't know... Im not that sure. Im a newb, you see.

[Hai_hai]

What is acceptable when it comes to pushing and shoving during Shiai? ...

There was a lot of pushing and shoving at the 12th WKC between unequal sized opponents (USA v. Korea). The small kendoka have to go with flow, i.e. step back when pushed rather than fall back. The smaller or shorter kendoka need to expect this sometimes and need to maintain balance when getting pushed. It's just part of the kendo also. You do not choose your opponents.

[Vansen]

What is acceptable when it comes to pushing and shoving during Shiai? I was the ACT Kendo Comp (Australia) over the weekend and noticed there were some kyu grades blatently charging, pushing and shoving opponents around.

I guess it is acceptable when your opponent is inches from the boundary lines??? but I saw this one kyu grade participant attempting a men strike near the centre of the court and then continously charging, arms cocked out straight, towards the opponent, in a blatent attempt to push the opponent out of the court.

If one is going to use their body weight/height to ones advantage by charging at lighter-weights than should it not be fair for lighter-weights (or anyone for that matter) to use counter techniques such as tripping etc.

Hi Iya. I was also there. If you may remember a guy running around with a video camera all day, that would be me (I have all the shoving on tape). There is a rule that deliberate shoving is not allowed but the interpretation of the rule is not black and white. You will always have people that will use their mass and court outlines to their advantage, I guess it is part of shiai Kendo but tripping is certainly not allowed. From the footage I have, I can see that some Kendoka are just aware of where they are within the square and can shift their bodies left or right to avoid being pushed out. As in any sport with outlines, the more experienced you are the better the "feel" for the court.

Cheers,
Ben Yuen

[Old Warrior]

I never get this line of inquiry. If a big person pushes you - get out of the way. Sidestep and hit men. I'm no expert here, but basic physics suggests that there is no point in pushing back when the other guy is a lot bigger; just turn the opponent and step back to distance. This seems like pretty basic stuff and is worthy of practice.

I think newbies get the idea that the only choice is to push back. I'm a big guy and I never attempt to muscle anyone for fear I will be off balance and vulnerable. The one place I do use my size is if you charge straight at me I don't give ground. Instead, I brace for the contact. Many an opponent has literally bounced off me and wound up on their tail.

[Will]

don't watch kyu people to model your kendo, look at the higher ranked yudansha

[aru-ma]

as far as shoving goes as it's usually tolerated to a degree in shiai although not a recomended thing to do albeit very annoying, just like a very long tai atari session. if you're wandering of it's a legitimate way of giving your opponent a hansoku with slight nudge then yes it is but pushing your opponents half way through the shiai jo, nggak kali ya.

[IYA KALI]

hahaha hey Aru-ma I totally agree with you dude...annoying it definitely is!!!

Is pushing the opponent half way through the shiai jo (or there abouts), a good indication of lack of skill...iya kali

[taganahan]

if you're going against a big opponent, there are 2 things you can do(maybe more).

1st one, you can use your opponents push. when he comes to you you can absorb the push, go back and do a tari tari me(check my spelling). just go with his flow.

2nd one, you can go against him. when he's about to meet up with you, go immediately to the side so that he'll keep going. then do a men while you're on the side or when he's about to turn.

3rd one, haha i have another one. you may also move backwards and not meet with him, but watch out for the boundary lines. this will make a good chance of him missing and chasing you around. you might say this is not a good thing, being chased around. but i've tried doing this, and when my opponent finally stopped chasing me, i went for his kote and men.

hope this helps...feel free to correct me..hehe

[KamiKiller5000]

I am a fairly big guy (6'1" and 200 lbs) and being new to Bogu (I've only been wearing Bogu for a month) I'm often guilty of trying to "muscle" people around in shiai. This last practice, after a match that I won, my sensei mentioned that even though "pushing" can win you a match, when you go to test for rank, the Shimpan will remember you as someone who is "ungraceful" or even one who "has poor kendo" based on the excessive amount of pushing in your tactics. My sensei even went so far as to say that "barbarian Kendo" is something that only bullies, and people who completely disregard technique, utilize as a means to win.

I was humbled by the feedback that I got only moments after "winning" a match that I had won by pushing somebody out of the ring, and retrospectively, I would think that although you can "win" with pushing and shoving, a more graceful, mature way to approach shiai technique would be through utilizing means that are based in the Kendo fundamentals, which I'm sure we could all stand to learn a little bit better

[Marine_Boy]

If pushed, open the pathway and let them through. Lead them around in a circular movement.

Use principles of aiki if you know them!

[emitbrownne]

I'm no expert here, but basic physics suggests that there is no point in pushing back when the other guy is a lot bigger; just turn the opponent and step back to distance.

In my humble experience, sometimes its useful to push back against a stronger opponent. Still bear in mind the fact that you are going to give, but the initial push will reduce thier momentum, and disrupt thier plans.

doesnt always work....

[Soul_Reaver]

Use principles of aiki if you know them!

If pulled move in,if pushed move to the side ;p

[darkluc3]

i think if someone wants to win just with pushing around it wouldn't be too bad to answer with some fast tsuki- even if you don't score a point, it'll at least make the other one stop when he sees that he's just running into your sword (what also hurts...)

[Akasha]

sometimes its useful to push back against a stronger opponent. Still bear in mind the fact that you are going to give, but the initial push will reduce thier momentum, and disrupt thier plans.

Hmmmm interesting!

I will bare this is mind next time I fence you big guy