jodan position

**taganahan** · 26th June 2004, 04:44 AM

i've seen some people do jodan positions in our dojo when doing a shiai.

my question is what are the advantages and disadvantages of this position?

as far as i can see, when you do jodan it makes you open to dou cuts. and it seems that it takes more time to cut when you're in this postion. please elighten me in this for i'm still exploring different positions, which will best suit me.

**mystic_kendoka** · 26th June 2004, 07:01 AM

it is quicker in attacking, if it wasnt, why do you think in nito, the daito is raised above the head in katate jodan? if it was slower surely the daito would be in chudan as well..

if someone goes for your doh, u can hit men, or hit their shinai out of the way..

you shouldnt use this or any other kamae other than chudan, until you know everything there is to know about chudan, 'mastered' it, and your teacher offered to teach you proper jodan..

**Neil Gendzwill** · 26th June 2004, 07:17 AM

Doh isn't really that open, it just looks that way. The most common target is the left kote, which is legal because it is held above the mune. Gyaku-doh is also available and surprisingly men is a good bet. Tsuki is often tried but it's a little risky - it's easy for the jodan player to trap or knock down the incoming tsuki using his tsuka and then hit a two-handed men.

Jodan is a very aggressive posture, suited to people who are able to generate a lot of pressure on their opponents. Tall people can do well with jodan but it's not mandatory. Physical strength and endurance is required. The advantage is that the shinai comes down very quickly, and if it connects it's highly likely to be a point because it is so clear. Also the single-handed strike from jodan has more range than the normal two-handed attack from chudan. The position is intimidating, especially if you haven't played against it much. However it is also limited as you don't have the ability to do anything about the opponent's shinai other than your seme (pressure), and after you've attacked you are quite vulnerable until you can get back into kamae.

Most sensei recommend you have a reasonable grasp of chudan before trying jodan, around 3 dan is a common recommendation. It's also advisable to have an instructor who knows jodan, most are chudan people who can't offer too much help with jodan. People who are serious about jodan normally practice it all the time including suburi, kirikaeshi etc.

**taganahan** · 26th June 2004, 09:07 AM

so height is needed to have more advantage? i'm only 5'5" and that's like short(in my opinion). aside from chudan and jodan what other positions are there? i've read about gedan in Go Rin no Sho but i haven't really seen that one yet, i think.

**Nishi** · 26th June 2004, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by taganahan

so height is needed to have more advantage? i'm only 5'5" and that's like short(in my opinion)*snippy snip*

Actually I think Toda Sensei is 5'5" (mabye even shorter). I think for all the pretentious "advantages' we talk about, a person who is well trained will always have the advantage. Point is, if you wanna do jodan, youre effort will determine your advantage...go for it.

**Shazzanzzz** · 26th June 2004, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by taganahan

so height is needed to have more advantage? i'm only 5'5" and that's like short(in my opinion). aside from chudan and jodan what other positions are there? i've read about gedan in Go Rin no Sho but i haven't really seen that one yet, i think.

People go to gedan sometimes closing in to the opponent, mainly to force him to go for men, or make him hesitate. Then, you can go for men or kote, depending on the situation.

I've seen people go to hasso before, but, it's hard to score from that kamae i

I don't think anyone ever uses wakigamae.

Height doesn't matter in kendo. Tall people have tall people's problems.

**Neil Gendzwill** · 26th June 2004, 01:32 PM

Height is an advantage for jodan but I think it's more a matter of disposition. People are either disposed to a kamae that requires aggression and pressure or they're not. Anyways, the point is moot - you'll be learning chudan for a few years yet. Jodan and chudan are the only kamae that are commonly used in shinai kendo. Gedan (shinai low) and hasso (shinai to the side like a ninja movie) are sometimes used briefly but I've never seen them as a main kamae. Wakigamae (shinai behind the body) just doesn't work with shinai.

**Nazo** · 3rd July 2004, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by taganahan

i've seen some people do jodan positions in our dojo when doing a shiai.

my question is what are the advantages and disadvantages of this position?

as far as i can see, when you do jodan it makes you open to dou cuts. and it seems that it takes more time to cut when you're in this postion. please elighten me in this for i'm still exploring different positions, which will best suit me.

Jodan is the aggressive stance,best to adopt this chance if your gonna go for
the initiative....,however it does leave you open for hits on the Do and Kote,
and open for a possible tsuki,thats why adopting this stance for defence would be no good,But it certainly is faster to cut when in this position!

**Old Warrior** · 3rd July 2004, 11:34 PM

"Height is an advantage for jodan but I think it's more a matter of disposition. People are either disposed to a kamae that requires aggression and pressure or they're not."

From my limited perpective, it seems to me that using jodan is like showing up for a gun fight with a very accurate bolt action rifle. You seem to need nerves of steel because you can only commit to strike once and therefor you must be supremely alert and in absolute tune with your opponent.

Since I do nito, the dynamics are much different because I have the chance (and hopefully the ability) to block and strike simultaneously. My usual approach is to strike kote while protecting men with the shoto (hoping I wasn't duped into presenting my own kote). When that fails, I try and induce the opponent to cut men to set up something else and then see what presents itself. It's fun to face something different. It gets a little boring, when almost everyone who opposes me, stands in chundan with the tip pointed to their right to protect kote and to stay away from being controlled by my shoto.

**JSchmidt** · 4th July 2004, 09:01 AM

"however it does leave you open for hits on the Do and Kote,"

Uhmm, it's very hard to hit Do against jodan, if the jodan player got the slightest idea of what he's doing.

"It gets a little boring, when almost everyone who opposes me, stands in chundan with the tip pointed to their right to protect kote and to stay away from being controlled by my shoto."

Boring?..because they refuse to make it easy for you?

**Old Warrior** · 4th July 2004, 12:35 PM

"Boring?..because they refuse to make it easy for you?"

Got me... I just love that sound of a good kote hit and when they look at you like a deer caught in the headlights trying to figure out how you managed to do it.

**regularyojimbo** · 4th July 2004, 08:23 PM

Jodan vs jodan would be like Nihon Kata Ipponme. Has anybody seen what happens if two face each other jodan vs jodan. If an opponent took up jodan could one not mirror them and take up jodan too.

Does anybody have any links for video of jodan in shiai?

Thanks

abayo

**JSchmidt** · 4th July 2004, 11:43 PM

If an opponent took up jodan could one not mirror them and take up jodan too.

Only if you are confident that you stand a better chance than using chudan...and for most people, as they are not used to fighting from jodan, they are usually a lot worse of.

Jakob