Tapping shinai at Issoku-itou...

[mingshi]

Some people press their shinai tip to their opponent's to feel how strong their centre are -- but some prefers tapping on it. It annoys me sometimes but is there a technical advantage of doing so?

[junkyman]

I think its mostly just a bad habit that can be a disadvantage is your opponent can time your tapping and use it as an opening.

[jmarsten]

Some people press their shinai tip to their opponent's to feel how strong their centre are -- but some prefers tapping on it. It annoys me sometimes but is there a technical advantage of doing so?

Only if it annoys you enough to make you respond. Your response could create and opening for the opponent.

[Taek]

Sometimes I press opponent's shinai quickly to the side in order to make opening and it may feel like I'm tapping it. An opponent with strong chudan no kamae, I quite often would tsuki myself on the opponent's shinai by running into it during attempting a men cut or get stuck on the shinai without being able to go through with showing my zanshin if I don't achieve the opponent's centre and the opeining first. And I agree to what Jmarsten mentioned. I often found the hardest one to fight is one who doesn't move...like a rock.

Well, Musashi's The book of five rings says the same thing - 'The body of a rock'.

Also, I found a good article about 'How to dominate the Centre'.

http://www.st.rim.or.jp/~shimano/doujo/eng/6dan_e.html

Cheers

[Andoru]

Taek - you've been posting excellent links lately. Keep up the good work!

[JSchmidt]

It annoys me sometimes but is there a technical advantage of doing so?

Well, you just mentioned one of the reasons why to do it..that it can annoy people...what then often happens is that people try to push your shinai away and they're wide open for an attack.:-)

Jakob

[Hai_hai]

Some people press their shinai tip to their opponent's to feel how strong their centre are -- but some prefers tapping on it. It annoys me sometimes but is there a technical advantage of doing so?

Depends on who is doing it. If it's part of their strategy, they've got multiple plans. 1. They tap so you tap back. When you tap back, they move their shinai so you "over swing" and lose center. 2. Tap to see how strong your center is. If it is really strong, they will tap it really hard to get it out of center. This is to try to get you to come back to center quickly (like a spring flexing back), in the meantime, they will move their shinai hoping you will over-swing on the way back and lose center. If they get their timing right, they will make a kote or men cut just when you lose center. 3. If your center is weak when tapping, they will just bang your shinai out of the way and come in with men uchi. 4. Mentally try to tap you off of center where your kamae stays off center. This is nuts but works with beginners.

[Taek]

Taek - you've been posting excellent links lately. Keep up the good work!

Thanks Androu. Compare to your contribution to this forum, I've done only little. Well, thanks to everyone who shares their knowledge here.

[Phlebas]

[quote] http://www.st.rim.or.jp/~shimano/doujo/eng/6dan_e.html [quote]


That's an interesting article Taek, thanks for posting. It makes me think about who's really controlling centre... of course I'm no rokudan, but I'm learning.

[Kaoru]

Some people press their shinai tip to their opponent's to feel how strong their centre are -- but some prefers tapping on it. It annoys me sometimes but is there a technical advantage of doing so?

Well what you could do, is let them tap your shinai, and turn it into your advantage. I'm not into bogu yet, but I have an idea that I'm dying to try. Why not draw them into your center by taking a step or two or maybe more, back if it can be managed, as they tap your shinai, enticing them to follow you? If they follow you, and some might, because they are first concentrating on the tapping to see if they are going to get you to do what they want, they might not notice you moving backwards, and you can attack them off guard this way. I don't know if this would work, but that's what I'd try if they tapped on my shinai.

That could be a technical advantage for the person receiving the tapping couldn't it? Do you guys think it would really work?

Kaoru

[Masahiro]

Since when is kendo the way of "tapping your opponent's shinai"? and since when did we start to teach people to use "strategy" in the midst of a shia? What happened to just attack, try to kill your opponent with your seme and ki instead of tapping them, feeling their center, see how strong it is, and then lure him into your possible scheme? come on guys, do you see the hachidan's tapping their opponent's shinai ? Anyways, don't be offended I don't mean anything by it. just had to get it off my chest. If we all concentrate on tapping and continue to perfect this "feeling the center" by having to make contact with your opponents shinai, your "tapping" techniques will most definately get better. but I ask you this then, think about what kendo will evolve to 50 years from now, luckily the few hachidan these days have gone back to the basics to perfect their skills.

[Neil Gendzwill]

The battle for centre through tip contact is a valid part of kendo, Masahiro, I don't see why you need to be so derisive. When I come up against new opponents, one of the ways I assess them is through the way their kensen feels. Strong people put their spirit out in the kensen, it feels alive. It's a much different feeling than just batting back and forth, but it's still the same idea.

It's not always useful to say "hachidan don't do it that way" - to get to their level, you have to learn over time. As kurukuru says, you have to do the kendo appropriate to your level. You can't go from nothing to a live kensen and incredible seme - you get there step by step. Tapping the tip, making circles, trying to push and see what happens - these are all things people should try. Eventually they will figure out how to accomplish these things more subtly.

[Curtis]

come on guys, do you see the hachidan's tapping their opponent's shinai ?

Yes, you do see them using this. I have practiced with many 8 dan and even a couple 9 dan. I have also studied video of them. It is known as "shinai foreplay" in translation to english. It may be more subtle but it is there nonetheless.

[Masahiro]

Neil, Yes that's my point exactly. (refering to the first paragraph in your post.) Also, Neil the starter of this thread and a couple of the people who responded to this thread are no where even near 3 dan yet. I am just advocating good center. On a side note, I know exactly what you mean when you say a good opponent's swords feels alive. However, that isn't achieved through "tapping" his/her shinai. I've fought against opponents whose sword felt "live" as oppose to "dead sword" and I've gotten that feeling before even making contact with their shinai. This is really about seme and application of seme instead of "tapping" shinai to test center. I advocate good kendo in accord with no excessive movements. And oh another thing, while I respect what mr. kurukuru said. I don't entire agree with it. Because, while we may only do the type of kendo appropriate for our particular levle, but that must be a fact that other observe of you. It can never be something you tell yourself. Suppose you are figting a hachidan and you say "I am just not as good as he is, and I will simply do the best kendo I can at my leve" then it would be fine. but if you were to practice everyday, or however many days a week you practice with the attutide "I may only do the kendo that is appropriate at my level" then only small advancements in your skill can be made. I, myself, consciously always try to do hachidan kendo. What about you Neil?

To Curtis,

hmmm, if you want to judge it on technicality. .. "O.k" hachidan's do "make contact with each other's shinai" but I think if you were to say well hachidan's do it, so it's o.k. we do it. then, may you do all of what the majority is doing. Hachidan's also duck their head in shia's, so it's o.k. we duck our heads right? I am not trying to provoke any response, I just want people to think about what they are going to do before they do it. I am never ever going to tell something "well, this is right" when there are some aspect of it that remain "grey".

lastly, I thank you two for your kind replies. I have gained from it and I hope others may have as well through the errors I have made.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I, myself, consciously always try to do hachidan kendo. What about you Neil?

How do you even know what hachidan kendo is? I reckon I'm doing pretty good if I understand what I need to do to improve to 1 dan more than I am now. I only have a vague idea of what's going on 2 dan above me. I don't understand hachidan kendo at all.

"O.k" hachidan's do "make contact with each other's shinai" but I think if you were to say well hachidan's do it, so it's o.k. we do it. then, may you do all of what the majority is doing. Hachidan's also duck their head in shia's, so it's o.k. we duck our heads right?

You can't have it both ways. In one breath you say, "don't tap, hachidan don't tap", then you say "don't do everything hachidan do because some of them do it wrong". It's illogical to start with. It also begs the question of whether you really understand what they are doing.

I think it's better at your level to do what hachidan instructors tell you to do. They've been where you are on the path, they can give you advice as to how to advance along the path.