DOING KENDO AND GETTING OLDER.

[Usagi San]

It seems to be accepted by everybody that your kendo improves with time. But what about the your body? I mean, I'm a 42 years old kendoka and I started doing kendo some nine years ago. My body does not get stronger and stronger by the day, on the contrary.
At the same time that I feel my understanding of kendo growing, the response my body is giving to the crescent demands is not always the most appropriate. It doesn't matter that I do my best, which I always try to do, somedays it seems like... well... it seems like I'm getting old. I guess that's it.
What's the point of being aware if your body cannot match your mind?
Any comments about that?

[hobbit]

I'm 47, my sensei is 70+ . . . yet guess how many times I can cut him unless he wants me to? Although speed, stamina & strength will naturally decrease with age, it seems to me that as long as you have a good clean technique, timing, ki-ken-tai-itchi and seme are something that work better with age. ( I know what I mean, but I'm not explaining it very well - hopefully someone else will ).

[hamish]

What's the point of being aware if your body cannot match your mind?
Any comments about that?

I guess the key to it is knowing what your body is capable of and using that to your best advantage. As you get older you may not be able to (for example) do as many big leaping men from to-ma as you could any more, (although I've seen a near 80 year old sensei doing them at will!) but if you know your body really isn't capable of doing it, don't try. What training do you do outside of kendo?

In any case, old age and cunning beats youth and enthusiasm any day!! (not that 42 is old, of course)

You should be doing your own kendo, not someone else's. What advice has your sensei given you?

Hamish

[Nishi]

What's the point of being aware if your body cannot match your mind?

I think the link here is very strong, with these older guys, the mind is very settled and the body emulates this as well. Still and immovable in both mind and body.

I know when i fight guys my age (or there about), there are usually openings to unload a string of attacks, but thats because we need a string to hit one cut, we are very physical in youth, but when you fight these older guys, and im talking about the ones that have taken kendo seriously for years...they dont allow many openings (if any), I rarley find good chances to attack and they control the fight completely. Physically speaking, they may only need a couple of attacks during a bout, which is not demanding at all, just menatlly aware.

[Steve Bishop]

I had the privelige to host an International Kendo Enbu Taikai (IKET) in Edinburgh just last weekend. Sumi Masatake sensei (Hachidan Hanshi) took part in a radio interview and explained that for him keiko is 90% mental and 10% physical.

[Usagi San]

What advice has your sensei given you? Hamish

Me and my sensei we laugh a lot about this. He is always saying that I shouldn't worry about that. That he also is getting weak and stuff, and that that is normal, etc. But mostly what he says is that all I have to do is to do "kendo that is beautifull", meaning, big (large??) movements, good body positioning, with good and positive atittude.
But you should see him, I mean, he is ten years OLDER than I am, he is japanese and rokudan.He is the older person in the dojo AND YET he jumps and flies and "kicks ass" like a 20 year old.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Of course as you get older your kendo must change. Most people (if they keep in shape) physically aren't too much worse off at 40 than at 25, but after 40 things slide a little. You should be working on centre, maai, seme, all that good stuff.

OTOH a little physical oomph never hurts either. Have you considered some cross-training? A little running for the wind, some squats for speed?

[Tholon]

Since I am 42 and started with Kendo some 6 months ago, I have given this some thought.

First of all, why does one train Kendo. If it is to win competitions, it's probably to late. But my reason to train Kendo is just to train Kendo. For it's own sake.

OTOH - it wouldn't be any fun to turn into a "punchball"... So there has to be a balance. And I do think that my age and experience will give me some advantages over the youngsters.

When it comes to fitness, I am not to impressed by some of the young guys in the dojo. So even if you are older, you can still be more fit.

As Neil said, some cross-training and running won't do you bad. (BTW - I don't have a clue on your fitness. So this might just be stupid....)

[meow]

And I do think that my age and experience will give me some advantages over the youngsters.

yup, I second that. The younger kendoka may have more power and stamina but I think we late starters are often more serious and have outgrown the fancy show-off stuff. Also we often know our body and limits better then most 20 year old do. You win some, you lose some...

[Usagi San]

I hear you guys, and in a lot of aspects I couldn't agree more with you, but the way I see kendo, and putting it in a very simplistic way, kendo is a sort of "stylized confrontation", and the most important word here, of course, is confrontation. After all its a martial art So even if you train "just for yourself" the "other one", the one who opposes you, as a lot of importance. Like Tholon said: it wouldn't be any fun to turn into a "punchball".
So even if you look at him as a mere reflection of you, (mental note: is this getting too mystical, or what???), anyway, he/you is the obstacle to surpass.
And that "victory" (over yourself) inevitably passes, expresses it self is through your body. Ki-ken-TAI, right? Hence the necessity of a responding body, and a good physical condition, and age, etc...
Pfu... did this made any sense to you?

[taganahan]

you should watch some very old senseis fight. if you go to kendovj.com and watch that video about the 8th dan sensei who is something like 82 yrs. old(if i'm not mistaken), you can see that he can still kick them around even though he is mostly just doing counter attacks.

~taganahan

[ben]

I'm facing this one too, and telling someone to look at old Japanese men doesn't always help. There is a personal aspect to getting older, a frustration that is much bigger than I realised. Of course it is bigger. I will never be as fast as I used to be. That's a pretty scary thought.

Most Westerners (apropos sport) hang up their boots, as it were, about now. We have a terrible tradition of worshipping youth (blame the Greeks, or Baron de Courbetin: "Faster. Higher. Stronger." phooey!). So I know what you are saying Usagi-san.

Remember a couple of things next time you're getting whupped by some 3-kyu.
1) If it wasn't for you they wouldn't have anyone to train with.
2) If it wasn't for them you wouldn't have anyone to train with.
That's all there is to kendo IMHO. Two people who don't give up.

Sore ja ganbarimasho!

b

[Old Warrior]

"There is a personal aspect to getting older, a frustration that is much bigger than I realised."

The alternative to getting older is dying young - and that is unacceptable.

Now, the question that remains is "how are you going to deal with the time you have". For me, kendo is a matter of making the best of my physiology and understanding the limitations of age and time so as make the experience enjoyable. Showing up and trying my best is everything. Remembering the athletic prowess that I once had and lamenting its loss is utterly useless. Searching for new ways to use what I have and learning more - is the real challenge.

I have taken issue with the idea promulgated by many respected board posters about elegant kendo and striving for that perfect men. My theory is that there is a place in kendo for everyone and that the skill set that is available to some of us does not always include the ability to do elegant kendo and there is no reason to frustrate oneself seeking to attain an elusive level of skill.

A dozen members of our dojang were the guest of the NYCKC and attended their Saturday practice. They were warm and generous hosts and it was my first experience at another dojo. My last bout was with a 4th dan who beat me like a stubborn nail. My bruises suggest to me that he was somewhat less than elegant but his vigor was way way beyond anything I could muster. At the post practice dinner, in one of his many speeches, the Master (as translated for me) mentioned how proud he was that I maintained my composure, fought back as best I could and took everything that was dished out without complaint (including 2 missed tsuki that got under my men). The point - I'll never be as fast or have as much energy as I would like, but I'm enjoying my bruises and looking forward to the time I get the chance to face this guy again. If I were him, I'd be embarrassed pounding someone 6 ranks below me, but the fact that he worked so hard at it, suggests that my 2 good men cuts and an unchallenged do cut must have really pissed him off.

The bottom line is that a realistic assessment of what you have is important, but you never have to be satisfied with the notion that you can't get better even if your old body isn't cooperating.

[JSchmidt]

OW, if you turn up at another dojo and start doing nito, you should expect people to have a go at you, regardless your rank...and never whine about the missed tsuki's It's part of the package that comes with doing nito or jodan.
It is regarded as somewhat arrogant for low grades to do either of those, regardless of the your reasons for doing it.
The only time I've complained about missed tsuki's when doing jodan,was because my throat was so badly bruised that it hurt drinking the post-keiko beer!

Jakob

[Old Warrior]

"you should expect people to have a go at you, regardless your rank..."

I was a very popular fellow. Everyone wanted a piece of me because I was the only one doing nito and one guy commented that they rarely get to see someone doing the style.

I had a good laugh on the rank status. We must wear white until we reach shodan. So (if our hosts new the custom) the lower ranks among us were obvious. At one point I said to one of our crew "hey, don't they know we are wearing white because we suck?". I guess not - because no one showed us any mercy (not that I wanted any) and it was great to have new unknown opponents to fight. It was an absolutely great experience.