kendoist starting fencing

[AGLkenshi]

I've been doing kendo for about 2 years (2nd kyu), and due to unfortunate circumstances (going to college where there isn't a kendo dojo) I'm thinking of starting fencing. So this question goes out to those who are experienced or knowledgable in both schools of swordsmanship.

which of the 3 weapons systems (epee, foil, saber) would benefit the most from my experience and training with kendo?

right now from what ive read epee appeals to me the most. I prefer the caution and strategic mind-games it utilizes and the target area. saber is way too quick and i haven't formed much of an opinion either way on foil. Its interesting though, as kendo is primarily concerned with offense and epee is the more defensive system than the other 2.

[Kozushi]

You will enjoy epee the most, since it is a bit heavier than the other swords. The biggest difference between Kendo and Fencing, I think, isn't a big difference in style or stance, but a difference in the weight of the swords used. Muscular upper-body/back strength plays a big role in Kendo, but very little in Fencing. So, epee is for you.

[mystic_kendoka]

when fencing with epee or saber, wat weapons are used? blunt weapons tht look like their counterparts?

[emitbrownne]

[QUOTE=AGLkenshi]which of the 3 weapons systems (epee, foil, saber) would benefit the most from my experience and training with kendo?
QUOTE]

Go for Sabre.. your footwork stance can stay similar to your normal chudan kamae. I fenced with the rear foot L-bar style and parrallel and found parrallel more comfortable, and quicker (lunges are not as good, but your back and forth movements are quicker)..

The Salle I was with encouraged my sabre work, and even kept my kiai.. (it may be frowned on in competition)

The cutting movement of ther sabre may feel more natural to a kendoka rather than the twitchy thrusts of an epee or foil.

I liked sabre.. but your best bet is to try all three and see what feels the best.

[Charlie]

Well, you will probably have to start with foil regardless. Then you can try out the other two and see which you like best. Personally, I - and I only have a tiny bit of experience - like plain ol' vanilla foil fencing. Fencing's cool. Like kendo, do what your instructor(s) tell you. As Musashi said, the teacher is the needle and the student is the thread. Google Tiger Mori, he was a famous kendo and western fencing master.

Hope Old Warrior sees this, as he's an ol' vet of the piste.

BTW, I do not think kendo relies much at all on upper body strength, maybe back strength a little.

[Hai_hai]

which of the 3 weapons systems (epee, foil, saber) would benefit the most from my experience and training with kendo?

None. I would suggest that you check out a practice.
Western fencing and kendo are like comparing apples to oranges. Western fencing requires a lot of leg strength. The same amount of hand-eye coordination as kendo. Your left hand (if you are right-handed) will play a lot less importance than your right hand.

Modern electrical fencing is a sport and is very fun when you get good.

[Old Warrior]

[QUOTE=Charlie]Well, you will probably have to start with foil regardless. Then you can try out the other two and see which you like best. Personally, I - and I only have a tiny bit of experience - like plain ol' vanilla foil fencing. Fencing's cool. Like kendo, do what your instructor(s) tell you. As Musashi said, the teacher is the needle and the student is the thread. Google Tiger Mori, he was a famous kendo and western fencing master.

Actually, I began and ended as an epeeist, although I fenced foil when there were no epeeists around. The reason I disliked foil was the "right of way rule". This means that if your opponent starts an attack, you cannot initiate your own attack, until you first parry or cause a break inthe opponent's action. Thus, I could be immensely faster, buti f my oponent started an action I could not attack into his attack and score. Epee has no such rules and thewhole body is a target.

The carry over benefit from fencing to kendo is mastery of distance and timing and the ability to "feel" the adversary's body movement before you "see" it. Another plus is being used to the feel of combat and the need to remain calm and relaxed, poised for action.

Lastly, the constant repetition of basic movements required to learn kendo is "old hat" for me. Imagine the amount of practice it takes to be able to hit a spot on your opponents hand, the size of a quarter, 8 times out of 10, while it is being moved about, at the end of a fast lunge, using a 3' piece of steel 1/8" wide at the end. You get used to practicing things that most people would consider absurd and so I am never bored with Kendo class.

[Kozushi]

Musashi believed that the sword should be used one-handed. In crowded situations he would use both swords, but in one-on-one fights he used his katana only. Modern Kendo was not invented yet at Musashi's time, and he of course didn't do Fencing, but Fencing (a no armour, single-handed style) is closer to his method than modern Kendo is.

[Hai_hai]

Musashi believed that the sword should be used one-handed. In crowded situations he would use both swords, but in one-on-one fights he used his katana only. Modern Kendo was not invented yet at Musashi's time, and he of course didn't do Fencing, but Fencing (a no armour, single-handed style) is closer to his method than modern Kendo is.

That's not surprising. The Chinese have had used one-handed technique before the samurai era. There's more control and flexibility, less overall power though compared to a two-hand job.

[Charlie]

Sorry, back up a second. Where are you getting this info on Musashi? Musashi's school of swordsmanship is alive and well and one of its members posts here and at e-budo. His comments would seem to contradict yours, Kozushi, I'm sorry to say. I also don't think it is backed up by Go Rin No Sho, if that's what you were thinking.

[kenshin13]

Finally! Something I can post about! I did fencing for 2 years at the international saber training site where I talked to Mariel Zagunis! Anyways, I really didnt try them all out, but I have to say saber is mostly for newbies who havent done fencing, I think it's great because it's the all around sword and in epee you get to hit the legs (that'd hurt! theres no protection down there!) . And foil, well, foil is way too fast with too little target. I'd say go with the sabre. All around, good protection for the hand, pretty big target range, and if your in Oregon, the best place to be if you wanna fence is here! O ya and also Ed Korfanty trained with me too, hehe I love bragging (just kidding). Ok so boiling it down to the basics:

Foil: Really fast, small target (just the torso) and with a weak little sword.

Epee: Really heavy and clunky for just one hand, no knuckle protection, but ironicly more defensive. big target (whole body) which would hurt to much for me ( I'm a weakling)

Saber: Ding Ding Ding! You hit the jackpot! All around best sword, best target range (torso and head, sounds little but it makes a big difference, trust me) and at a good speed.

P.S. If you didn't know, Mariel Zagunis won her first Gold this year. Ed Korfanty was her coach.

[AGLkenshi]

thanks for the tips!

so it seems like epee overlaps with kendo with the zanshin and se-men aspects (good form, pressing with your spirit, reading your opponent) but is defense oriented whereas saber overlaps with kendo with the cutting aspect, the emphasis on aggressive attack and speed.

i saw saber on the olympics the other day, and it seemed like it was mostly two guys running at eachother and slashing, and one person getting the point, taking about a second per bout? then again, i haven't seen a lot of other olympic fencing so are all the weapons like this? i prefer the deceptively "slower" pace of kendo, waiting just out of reach of tsoku-ito (sp??) for a perfect opportunity for a strike.

also, if i were to start, would it be beneficial to start as a lefty? (im a righty) the reason i'm thinking this would help my kendo ability, seeing as though all the cuts focus with the left hand. the only problem is, that reverses my stance opposite of kamae. in kendo at least, i feel like my left has become more coordinated simply because my sensei yells at me that im bashing with my right every practice

it would be pretty cool to develop a nice thrust with a left that could carry over to a dead-accurrate tsuki

[kenshin13]

thanks for the tips!

so it seems like epee overlaps with kendo with the zanshin and se-men aspects (good form, pressing with your spirit, reading your opponent) but is defense oriented whereas saber overlaps with kendo with the cutting aspect, the emphasis on aggressive attack and speed.

i saw saber on the olympics the other day, and it seemed like it was mostly two guys running at eachother and slashing, and one person getting the point, taking about a second per bout? then again, i haven't seen a lot of other olympic fencing so are all the weapons like this? i prefer the deceptively "slower" pace of kendo, waiting just out of reach of tsoku-ito (sp??) for a perfect opportunity for a strike.

also, if i were to start, would it be beneficial to start as a lefty? (im a righty) the reason i'm thinking this would help my kendo ability, seeing as though all the cuts focus with the left hand. the only problem is, that reverses my stance opposite of kamae. in kendo at least, i feel like my left has become more coordinated simply because my sensei yells at me that im bashing with my right every practice

it would be pretty cool to develop a nice thrust with a left that could carry over to a dead-accurrate tsuki

Yah I think it would be good to start as a lefty. Hehe you could catch all the others off guard and totally wack em! (laughs). Good plan. O and I dont think there's like any slow pace in fencing at all. That's what makes it really fun in bouts.

[Neil Gendzwill]

i saw saber on the olympics the other day, and it seemed like it was mostly two guys running at eachother and slashing, and one person getting the point, taking about a second per bout?

From my understanding of the state of sabre these days, that's an accurate summary.

i prefer the deceptively "slower" pace of kendo, waiting just out of reach of tsoku-ito (sp??) for a perfect opportunity for a strike.

Not going to happen with any of the weapons. From my limited understanding of it, you may prefer epee.

[Hai_hai]

i haven't seen a lot of other olympic fencing so are all the weapons like this?

No, epee and foil have more actions via parries and counter-attacks so the bouts last longer.

also, if i were to start, would it be beneficial to start as a lefty? (im a righty)

Yes and no. Lefties have a certain advantage over righties mentally. You generally want to go with your strong side.

it would be pretty cool to develop a nice thrust with a left that could carry over to a dead-accurrate tsuki

You can have accurate tsuki via practice at home.