Kendo in the Olympics

[hamish]

Other questions aside, would you want to represent your country at kendo in the Olympics, if it became an Olympic sport?

[JSchmidt]

While it's highly unlikely I would ever be good enough to represent my country at the Olympics, I don't want to see Kendo become an Olympic sport.

Jakob

[supernils]

Tricky,
I don't want kendo to be in the olympix, but if it was I'd fight.

[Kenshi]

Hey,

I am totally against kendo in the olympics ... but, like Nils, I would probably pitch-up at the event. I heard rumour that had Osaka won the 2008 bid, kendo would have been a guest-'sport'.

There would be lots of negatives to it ... categorisation of kendo as 'sport' in the worldseye, the problem of spectators (i.e. "whats going on"), potential loss of reigi... etc etc

Can you imagine a Japan Vs Korea final and some 'dodgy' shinpan decision making ?! Would the wronged person/team lose with grace? Can you imagine doing the commentary "um, it didnt hit the correct area, but the judges say its a point, so its a point" !?
I saw a couple of *really* bad displays of etiquitte at last years europeans ...... I am sure if it were the olympics problems like these would occur more often, and be magnified.

The only positive things about it, that I can think of, would be exposure, the new blood it brings, and - oh my god - funding!

Would you wear an adidas-do or a nike-hakama?

Cheers,

[Dagon]

Hello All!

The points made against Kendo being an Olympic sport seem valid. I, however, could live with those negatives in light of the huge growth Kendo would see world-wide.

We should hold the past close to our hearts and minds and at the same time look forward...

Thank you,
Andy

(BTW I'll take a Nike-hakama)

[Boso]

Hello,
Kendo would surely gain a large amount of new blood taking to the wooden boards worldwide. Perhaps this would lead to other sources of production for Kendo bogu. Competition amongst manufacturers and a reduction in the frightening cost of a setting yourself up with a decent bogu.

Perhaps too the air of elitism kendo often has attached to it in the West would begin to dissipate. Maybe this elitism surrounding Kendo is due to the expense. Not just of bogu but of travelling to Japan for tuition as an alternative to the scarcity of teachers in our own countries. There is the impression at times that non Japanese kendoka feel themselves to be priviliged holders of knowledge and I guess rightly so but it does get a bit much.

All of these things seem to be positives.

One negative that would probably occur could be the dilution of it's attractive 'Japanese concepts' from the notion of Kendo as a sport. budo or the philosophy would surely be the first aspect to be gradually chipped away as 'unnecessary' to the sporting focus.

Look at what has been happening to Judo in the west since it became an Olympic event.

Kendo as an Olympic sport, yes, it's a very interesting area of debate.

[JSchmidt]

"Look at what has been happening to Judo in the west since it became an Olympic event. "

And Tae-Kwon Do for that matter.(Which I practiced 12 years ago). I watched a few of the fights at the last olympics and it was appaling; It was more about 'touching' the opponent, rather than hitting. Imagine Kendo with no fumi-komi, no follow through and no zanshin, fought with rubber-shinais...that's what it looked like, compared to pre-olympic TKD.

Jakob

[mkomoto]

Dear Forums Member,

While the response (264 persons from 36 countries) to the survey on "Should Kendo become an Olympic Event" (published in the journal's first issue,) was quite good, and the (at time of writing 246,) views of the Forums "Poll: Kendo in the Olympics" also indicates interest in this topic, there have only been 16 votes so far.

I can imagine that looking at the issue from our present viewpoint, many of us have been adverse to the idea. However, if circumstances changed and we found ourselves with kendo as a regular event, many who had raised their voice against kendo in the Olympics might find themselves eating their words, so to speak, changing 'camps' overnight.

Accordingly, I guess that the many who have viewed this new poll-posting, have found themselves in a "moral dilemma," and as a result, we find many views but only a scant few votes.

(If you've read this far...) I think it only goes to underscore the (1) sensitive nature of this topic, and (2) importance of issue.

I am sure that everyone would be very interested in seeing the broader consensus about this timely discussion.

Like so many of the other postings, offering personal insight and experience, reinforced or modified by exchange with the broad spectrum of the other members, enables us to more clearly define our own positions. It furthers our growth.

I appeal for you input and votes in this poll.

M.I. Komoto
Chiba, Japan

[Boso]

With no disrespect intended. In answering the question as posed here, isn't the moral dilemma whether or not to put oneself on the line by in effect stating 'yes of course I would be proud to represent my country even if it was to the detriment of kendo'?

I think it would be much easier for people to answer the question if the question was put differently.

Perhaps two questions might do it.

Do you believe Kendo should be an Olympic sport ? Why or why not ?

[mkomoto]

Dear Boso-san,

Thank you for you comment, and by no means did I infer any negative sentiment. Your point is at the heart of this matter.

I agree that some further discussion into the pro/con of kendo as an Olympic event should be carried on; however, to some great degree that issue has been surveyed and reported on in the fore mentioned KW journal article (Issue 1.)

The greater number of respondents indicated that they would prefer kendo not be included to the Olympics for various reasons, i.e. detracting from cultural base, disappearance of etiquitte, becoming sports like activity, etc..

As a result of that survery, some argued that even though most were against the proposal, if kendo did indeed become a regular event in the Olympics most would not hesitate to try to make the team.

It is indeed a "devils advocate" question in its present form. It does put each person "on the line." It goes directly to the point without making (this) extensive background discussion. Mr. Robison after hearing so many viewpoints about the survey and the subsequent argument (including my own,) posed this as the simplest yes/no approach (perhaps to shut me up (?))

It may seem that we are beating a dead horse, with the survery, the report, this ongoing exchange we engage now. However, the potential for these scenarios we are discussing are very real as a pro-Olympic movement continues on. I hope by the means of/result of these discussions, we will each form more clearly our position on the matter.

As you suggest, I hope that some will make comment on a "why or why not?" basis and that our discussions will continue.

Thank you,

M.I. Komoto
Chiba, Japan

[John W]

Hi everyone.
Well this is an interesting thread!!
I actually voted that I would compete at a kendo event if it was in the Olympic's. My reason is pure- I enjoy kendo.

But the crux of the matter should it be an Olympic event?? Well the Olylmpic's to start with is to promote peace within mankind and the same must be said for kendo, more or less. I admit that I have yet to meet a person within kendo circles who is mannerless, arrogant and well...unpleasant. So by having kendo in the Olympic "limelight" it would attract new blood which is good for any sport/ martial art and lets face it- will make them a better person. Also funding has been mentioned and who can complain with that?
But I have no doubt in my mind that there would be more to lose than gain by making it an Olympic event in terms of... well, what has been mentioned above.
Kendo is unique in that it is not only a martial art but a WAY OF LIFE. It emcompasses the culture/ history and perhaps, to some degree, the essence of a country. I know few sports where the person stays in it for a majority of thier life. When the commercial world gets it's hands on it it would cease to be kendo. I remember when I first started kendo, I read a book by Michael Finn, at the last page he gave a quote- that once something in its original state is changed it ceases to be what it once was (something like that anyway). Surley this is what would happen to kendo if made an Olympic event?
The funny thing is though- I am against kendo becoming an Olympic event and yet I would want to compete in it!! But like I said - I enjoy kendo!

[John W]

Ok to be clear and take a stand - "no I would not want kendo to be an Olympic event".

[Boso]

Hello Komoto san,
otanjobi omedetou gozaimasu.

I think there's potentially a lot at stake in making Kendo an Olympic sport. But mostly there's a lot to be lost.

For myself the attraction to Kendo has lasted a long time mainly due to the depth of return Kendo offers. I see it as this being the result of a crystalization of input and improvement from the masters, over centuries. Not just a fitness regime or competitive outlet but a total approach to life.

In my opinion, from the perspective of Japan this is where Kendo differs from Judo, in the importance of it's completeness. Kendo encapsulates the most worthy values society can teach its members. So its a requirement of all school children to at least undertake an introductionary set of classes, at least thats what Ive been led to believe.

Should it become an Olympic sport, I guess as long as importance is placed on kata training a lot of the philosophy and focus of kendo will remain in tact. But to be frank, I think kendo reflects the values of Japanese culture. They are values which when taken aboard have a positive affect on the life of a kendoka.

Outside of Japan kendo is lifted into the context of it's new environment and attached values. It seems to me in the long term Kendo could lose the things that make it singularly kendo. Not to say improvements can't still be made but that the end goal is shifted. Rather than it be path of continual total self improvement it would shift to a much narrower goal of winning. The latter being a fundamental mind shift from the former, which would likely mean a reconstruction of an art as a sport. I think Kendo practised as art is far more complete, containing as it does now an important sporting componant anyway. But if it became an Olympic sport I think Kendo practiced as it is now would become a rare and exotic thing, at least outside of Japan.

In the long term Kendo, as it is now, is making steady inroads everywhere abroad. It's fantastic ! I think given more time we will see more people attracted to kendo. It offers a way to change the individual from the inside out. Do we really want to make such a fundamental change to a long term good thing ?

Apologies. That was a bit too long.

[Kenshi]

Hi all,

I cant see how kendo could become an olympic sport without vast changes in the rules (as said before).

I compete at international level (as I am sure other people in the boards do/have) and I can say without a doubt that the rule-system that is in place at the moment will not be sufficient for en-masse non-kendoka spectators.

I am not saying that modification of shiai rules are bad, just that it could eventually lead to something else (non 'kendo-like' .. physically and morally). And once we start down that road is there anyway back???? Maybe there would have to be more than one world-wide organisation..........

Another thing to think about is - who would be involved in (dictate?) any rule changes? I bet that there would be non-kendo people in attendence. You have to think Spectator-Appeal, Advertising-Revenues, and TV-Deals.

Kendo in its current format as an olympic sport - I would prefer it not to be, but if it were i'd compete.

Kendo in a new format with modified rules as an olympic sport - I cant see how it could be done without compromising what kendo actually is and, as such, I wouldnt compete.

But, I am sure, there are much better kendoka that me involved in this issue (not hard!), so maybe they can come up with a solution that makes the sponsors, tv companies, spectators, and particiapants happy... ??

Cheers,

[alexpollijr]

I think that what you've mentioned is also at the core of the subject. If The Powers That Be start being worried about the international mass audience and the financial return, then the whole heart of kendo is already lost.

It's not to say that it couldn't be a Olympic sport. After all , do you understand and/or watch every obnoxious sport at the Olympics? I dont. All that I know is that everyone in every olympic sport has an adidas/nike/reebok/<insert your slave-labor-made sporting product brand here> equipment.

Anyway, modern kendo fought in the WC or the Japanese Tournaments is already extra competitive with lots of waist-bending and head-bobbing and all these things. You can see why there are very very little or no jodan fighters left on both.

As long as it's still the kendo we know today, without three-stripe orange hakama, it could be an olympic sport I think.

Cheers,

Alex Polli