Kendo and "real" sword fighting... is there a connection?

[GlideWalker]

Top marks to Kaoru and Rouisu for handling different views very amicably.

Does anyone feel we are reaching any conclusions on the original question yet?

How real to we need it to get?

Personnally, I started doing Kendo because it is of no practical use whatsoever in daily life. Or even in some unlikely combat situation. Years ago I did Jujitsu for a while, but got frustrated with many people I met who seemed to be spending their lives preparing for violence.

More valuable is the capacity of eastern martial arts to teach patience, mental and physical agility, discipline, endurance, and how to control aggression and hence ensure that it never has to be used.

I don't think that Samurai fantasies, as mentioned by Kaoru, are a bad thing in themselves. Many sports teach the above mentioned virtues, so why do I have a bunch of shinai in the corner of my bedroom instead of golf clubs?

Like many of us I am attracted to the romance of the sword and the Samurai approach to (inevitable) human conflict. Virtues like bravery, wisdom, loyalty and service to community, nation and humanity are surely things we should all aspire to.

However, I could not do Kendo or some other art merely to ensure I give a good account of myself if I am attacked in the street. Preparing for 'real' combat if you are not actually a soldier is, to my mind, a rather impoverished excercise. Even perhaps faintly insulting to the countless millions who have been and still are being tested in battle for real, particularly those who have had no choice in the matter.

I think you need discipline and application over a period of years to learn anything truly valuable from Kendo or any other art. Authenticity in terms of 'how close is this to the real thing?' would not really come into it.

This is obviously a personnal view and I am more than willing to be persuaded that those of you who seek authenticity do so for mature and genuine reasons. Even if the rest of us find you a bit wierd! Be my guest...

[KenShi_JoB]

Rouisu-san, to tell you the truth, I do not totally agree with your arts. I think gekken is a bit dangerous, but I had heard about some senior koryu practitioner use shinken to do kata. It's dangerous too. but if they are train for it, it is ok in my opinion. Everyone have their own way.

I admire you very much because you show very good self-controll for a 18 year old man. You answer every question nicely and you deal with criticism quiet well. I think these are qualities that every kenshi should have.

[KenShi_JoB]

For original question, I think kendo does not very realistic, but it good enough in representing japanese sword arts for this modern day and age IMHO. It still contain much philosophy and mindset of sword fight. if some body want something more realistic, they can always walk a different path.

[Neil Gendzwill]

It may seem that we are simply fulfilling our samurai fantasies

That's pretty much how I'd sum up the school you're in. If you're enjoying it, fine. But be aware that the connection to the old schools is tenuous at best. Koryu have a system of combat, a set of principles which tie in all their armed and unarmed techniques. The mix and match mentality of modern eclectic martial arts just doesn't fit, although there are plenty of teachers like yours out there trying to do just that. Sounds like he's forthright about the origins of what he's teaching, which makes him a step or two above many of these sorts of people.

BTW your instructor's sandan makes him more or less an intermediate kendoka. In most federations someone of that level is not qualified to teach, much less create a new school.

Please be careful - you have only experienced your own school, and precious little of that. It's hard to see the situation clearly from your position. By all means, visit the local kendo dojo and get another perspective. You might ask them their opinion of your current school and see what they say.

[Aden]

And the ones who were around back when Andrew Melito was active in kendo will say he was a loss to NSW Kendo when he went off on his own path - leastwise thats what our sensei says other dojo may differ - martial arts is all about personal opinion.

More importanly he doesn't stop his students cross training in normal kendo as far as I know - we have one of them who is a member here in Wollongong while concurently training under Melito Sensei (gives him a very distinctive style to his kendo) for several years.

Aden

[Alex_McGrady]

...According to taicho, gekken was conducted by some kouryu, not all. Our style is based on several kouryu, it is not a direct sucession of one. Remember, kouryu are arts of war. Gekken is how we put our knowledge into use...

Uhhh....no. What is the infatuation with words and terms you people always twist and churn into new concepts. Like the terms kenjistu, or jutsu in general and now koryu. That just smells.....and it bad form.

Koryu mean "old style" 古流, other threads have been created on this subject. As other threads have suggested, the older styles were combined into the federation's styles of kendo, iaido and even jodo. The koryus are still practiced in addition to the sei tei, and not as war arts.

If your style is based in several koryu, then it is new ryu and therefore not old!!!!! Call yourselves Shin-ryu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your statement saying that "koryu are arts of war" is misguided. It should be "the old arts of war are koryu" because not all koryu is some silly bokken fighting-backyard free-for-all.

I dont care if those guys go back in their backyards and crush each other's skulls. It might even clean the gene pool (Darwinism joke). But I hope do not pull any innocent students into that dojo, like Kaoru-san is worried about. So he's a lawyer.... ummm....so what. Just means he should no better, any lawyer worth their money knows that you cannot legally waive gross negligence, and fighting with bokkens dressed up like little samurai-men sounds more of the gross kind than a simple case of negligence that can be waived. "Whoops, crushed your skull.....well, it is a good thing you signed my waiver"....come on.... who is this stupid???

Still do not think that dojos in Japan play like this... Maybe Hyaku-sensai can inform us of this. Dont think that the idea in Japan where these arts were formed, all think "well....how close can I get to the real thing?". The age of the Samurai is gone, my friend. Get over it. It would be like Hai_hai's mom in Nigeria tried to "relive" the America's old west by having realisitc gun fights. NO offense Ms. Hai.

Alex

[KenShi_JoB]

Alex_McGrady san, Rouisu did not claim that his shintodo is koryu.

[Alex_McGrady]

Alex_McGrady san, Rouisu did not claim that his shintodo is koryu.

You are right, KenShi_JoB-san, I tried not to beat up on Rouisu-san, (sorry Rouisu-san) it was just the way he used those terms. I tried not to direct it at any one person.... just a general rant versus a rant against some one

Perhaps, my focus was on the dojo that used the bokkens and called themselves koryu... I did not even know if Rouisu-san was affiliated or not. Just sometimes.... I see things and people who have all these claims and it just burns my ticket.... ya know what I mean???

Alex

[Hai_hai's_mom]

Rouisu: rock on baby, you a real man!

and all you haterz out there, you're beggining to sound like my son.

[Kaoru]

i wanna see my son! Im too ghetto to buy a sword!

Please get rid of this pic now. Please keep it clean or do not bother to post. Please remove it from the other thread you posted this on as well.

This is a Kendo forum, not a forum to post pics of a suggestive nature or write things of such things either.(Since it's obvious you are the same person as Hai Hai's Mom, this go for anything you post.) If you can't control yourself, you have no business being here.

Thank you.

Kaoru

[Chusan]

I strongly agree.
These pics are disgusting.
I will think of quitting visiting this fine board if these kind of pictures keep on being published here.

[Kaoru]

It's called "free speech". Don't make me liberate your country. And another thing, we are not the same person.

I don't believe you. And, free speech is only as allowed by the moderator on this forum, and the forum owner. Read the rules you agreed to when registering. If you keep it up, I will report you. You will be banned if you do not mind your manners.

Any threat is grounds for a ban. Keep it up, and you will be finished here. Your post will be reported to the moderator.

Kaoru

[Hai_hai's_mom]

I don't believe you. And, free speech is only as allowed by the moderator on this forum, and the forum owner. Read the rules you agreed to when registering. If you keep it up, I will report you. You will be banned if you do not mind your manners.

I don't care what you believe. Why don't we have the moderator verify whether or not we are the same person. If we are, then I will leave. If not, you leave.

Any threat is grounds for a ban. Keep it up, and you will be finished here. Your post will be reported to the moderator.

Kaoru

Why don't you go sit on your shinai and spin for a while.

[Kaoru]

I don't care what you believe. Why don't we have the moderator verify whether or not we are the same person.

If you actually posted something that was constructive, then maybe I wouldn't complain and think you are just some immature jerk with a dirty mind. If it turns up it is two different ISP's, that does not necessarily prove you are not the same person. I find it interesting that both of you showed up within a day or two of the other. However, if on the slight off-chance you are a different person, ok. Give me a good solid reason why I should believe you, and show me how you are different, and I may take it back.

If we are, then I will leave. If not, you leave.

The difference between you and I is, that you just got here, and you only write stupid off color jokes and useless other junk. It is safe to say that it isn't me that would be leaving.

Why don't you go sit on your shinai and spin for a while.

Why don't you learn to write something constructive and worthwhile instead of immature posts that say nothing? Do you even practice Kendo?

Kaoru