Kendo vs. Kenjutsu

[bokkenbreaker83]

if you dressed a student of kenjutsu(dont know the name...maybe kenshi) in bogu, and a kendoka fought him would the kenjutsu student have a chance?

[Alex_McGrady]

if you dressed a student of kenjutsu(dont know the name...maybe kenshi) in bogu, and a kendoka fought him would the kenjutsu student have a chance?

I dont know about kenjitsu but maybe the kenjitsu person would hit other parts of the body other than the head, kote, and body..... arent legs ok in kenjitsu?

once you think about it, what it kenjitsu anyway? do you really even fight? just techniques?

I dont know, maybe the two would be fighting like someone from totally different styles like fighting judo with taeqwondo. Doesnt really work.

[bokkenbreaker83]

ok. well let's put it this way.....any part of the body is vunerable to attack.

[Alex_McGrady]

ok. well let's put it this way.....any part of the body is vunerable to attack.

I really do not know much about kenjitsu attacks but the kendo person would be limited to those areas of strike.......

I think cloing the distance, the kendo person would strike a killing blow first. But in close, the kenjitsu person may be more effective. kendo has that leap forward that I have not seen in kenjitsu

[Rouisu]

The kenjutsuka would win. I'd put a 5:1 favouring the kenjutsuka. Because we kenjutsuka actually engage in full armour (ie bogu) sparring called gekken. Whereas kendoka would be restricted by the rules and techniques they learnt, we would not. Of course, that's not say that a skilled kendoka won't win; it's just that we kenjutsuka have more options.

[Pan-Chan]

I do agree that Kenjustuka have more options in a fight. But Kendo is an almost entirely full contact art, where as(from what I know) Kenjutsu is more kata that fighting. So a kenjutsuka could hit where ever, but the kendoka would more than likely get yuko datotsu because the techniques are more refined, and specifically used for fighting another kenshi, instead on just hunt and peck.

But then again, there would be no way of judging a match like that really. Well not unless there was a shinpan that was trained in both Kendo and Kenjutsu, so he could tell what is correct for Kenjutsu cuts. And I seriously doubt anyone would successfully strike a kendoka's leg. It would probably be in a hiki-waza type of move, and by that time, the kenjutsuka's men would be hit.

But I'm not bashing Kenjutsu or anything. Just giving my opinion.

[andrew_kumdo]

I really do not know much about kenjitsu attacks but the kendo person would be limited to those areas of strike.......

I think cloing the distance, the kendo person would strike a killing blow first. But in close, the kenjitsu person may be more effective. kendo has that leap forward that I have not seen in kenjitsu

hmmm kenjutsu swordsmanship... there attacks are sword-move-ments? simmilair to iaido? dont know who would win. maybe kendo.kenjutsu will be to slow idk just a guess

[paradoxbox]

I think if you gave a modern day kenjutsuka and a kendoka of equal ability real swords, and set them out to duel without armor, a kenjutsuka would win, but both would be injured before the end of the duel.. Now before anyone tries to bite my head of let me explain.

From what I have seen of VERY many kendo players, kendoka simply do not know how to cut properly in a way that would produce effective cuts with a live blade. This is not to insult kendoka or anything, but most of them simply have not trained with a live blade. Kendoka who practice iaido are markedly better at cutting but only the ones who do tameshigiri can actually cut properly.

You can hack and swing all you want with a real sword but if you don't cut properly, the sword will only do superficial damage, even to a flesh target. Most often it will hit the clothes and perhaps bounce off at worst, or produce a medium flesh wound at best. A proper cut will lop someones arm off like there was nothing there in the first place.

Kendoka have great experience at closing distance, perceiving opponent intentions and judging maai. However kenjutsuka are very skilled at perceiving intentions as well as ashi/taisabaki or body movement and counterstrikes. And where a kendoka might rely on hikiwaza or close in work if the initial distance closing produced no fatal cuts, a kenjutsuka would just draw the wakizashi and stab, or slice the neck and move away quickly waiting for the kendoka to bleed out..

Aditionally, koryu kenjutsu schools almost all have sideways kamae which allows for both longer swords and further cutting reach, whereas kendo kamae are generally done with both feet parallel which produces less reach and less balance.

So I think that a kendoka would probably get a few very quick, small, slash type cuts but they probably would not be fatal, unless it was a tsuki. I think the kenjutsuka would probably deliver one or two fatal blows, possibly to areas a kendoka does not have to worry about under normal rules such as the legs or groin.

I think it's also important for people to realise kenjutsu is not just kata, kata are the way techniques are transmitted but it's not the only thing you do in kenjutsu dojo. It's just the way you learn the movement. There are a huge number of drills and sparring to try out your knowledge in a free flowing environment, much like kendo but pretty much unlimited targets.

Both methods of training are good and I feel that all kenjutsuka should do kendo and vice versa in order to balance out parts that may be lacking in their other training.

Just my opinion.

[Twobitmage]

I guess kenjutsu is supposedly more "practical". I have an acquaitence or two who practice koryu.

but I live in a place where robot ninjas dont jump out of no where and start cutting off heads so i'll stick to kendo thank you.

[Alex_McGrady]

I guess kenjutsu is supposedly more "practical". I have an acquaitence or two who practice koryu.

but I live in a place where robot ninjas dont jump out of no where and start cutting off heads so i'll stick to kendo thank you.

Hi! What is koryu? Do you mean kenjitsu? I thought the translation of koryu is "old style" 古流. これは正しいでしょうか？

How does your acquaitence's style differ? :-)

Your neighborhood sounds safe :-) I dont have robot ninjas, just weird people in my neighborhood.

Alex

[Slade]

While I've no experience with Kendo, my take on it is that its a sport with well defined rules, guidelines, and movements. It's structured.

Kenjutsu, handling a sword once its drawn, has katas (or waza) to teach you how to move with the sword both in attacking and blocking. There's attacks to defeat your opponents defenses and there are blocks to use your opponents movements against them and become the attacker to win.

Not that there's nothing similar in Kendo, but again, my impression is that there's a block for a specific attack. In kenjutsu, we're taught the basics and then during sparing it's put to the test of interpretation and improvisation. An over head cut can be blocked by a varying number of methods. I can block, block and attack, block and shove them off balance, move out of the way and block the secondary cut, etc etc. In Kendo you can't move of the line (or so I believe).

I have to agree with the majority here that the kenjustuka would win against the kendoka. But the main problem with putting one against the other is that they are two different styles. Being a practicioner of kenjutsu, my first and only thought if I were in this event would be to strike first to kill. You can wave that shinai (sp?) all you want in my face but the second you move in I'm going to cut through the closest body part I can reach and continue until you go down and stay down.

But again, this is all a one-sided opinion. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that they are vastly different from what I've observed about the art I don't practice.

[Neil Gendzwill]

While I've no experience with Kendo

Clearly.

Not that there's nothing similar in Kendo, but again, my impression is that there's a block for a specific attack.

Wrong.

In Kendo you can't move of the line (or so I believe).

Wrong again.

You keep speaking of kenjutsu like it's one thing. Kendo is more or less homogenised. Kenjutsu is a catch all term for the sword curriculum of hundreds of koryu, who have different techniques and different methods of training.

[Optomitrist]

Ah, but they say Kendo spawned from Kenjutzu. For what reason did Kenjutzu need to form into Kendo? Practicality, boardom? If Kenjutzu is so much better then why did part of it evolve into such the "inferior Kendo"?

[don quixote]

An over head cut can be blocked by a varying number of methods. I can block, block and attack, block and shove them off balance, move out of the way and block the secondary cut, etc etc.

Haha! So can I! Man, you are seriously misinformed about kendo.

my first and only thought if I were in this event would be to strike first to kill. You can wave that shinai (sp?) all you want in my face but the second you move in I'm going to cut through the closest body part I can reach and continue until you go down and stay down.

Yeah, that is my first and only thought too. What else would it be? And yes, I'm probably going to strike the closest body part (though I might not wait for you to move in...), and it is probably going to be your head or your right wrist... you know, there is a reason why kendo is the way it is! You should try it!

[chidokan]

kendo and kenjutsu are not the same thing at all. One is a sport, the other is not. it is like comparing iaido and kendo, they both use swords but each goes its own way from there. To compare beginners, kendoka are looking for speed and basic attack points to score. iaido/ kenjutsuka look for technical quality regardless of initial speed, eventually meeting at a higher skill level. Kendo is limited, and if I used some techniques I know in a match I would be thrown out. Sports have rules and regs, war does not. Kendoka may argue that the kote they strike would win, but most men hits would hardly make you bleed. Compare that to a full cut from chin to groin, and also consider that if the jutsu guy gets into taitare position the kendoka is definitely going down in a nasty manner. So... my money is on the jutsu man after two years of practise.