Pre-World War II kendo

**Kirsty** · 28th February 2005, 08:23 AM

I searched these forums for this, and I couldn't find anything about it so...
I was reading a book on kendo and I came across this...
"..I was already off my guard, but my embarrassment reached its height when I foot-swept my first opponent , grabbed his men, and sat on it. I was about to start the choking procedure when the referees grabbed me under each arm and dragged me off the floor screaming something...Shortly thereafter, we were visited by a delegation from California informing my sensei that what he was teaching was pre-World War II kendo that was no longer acceptable in modern shiai. I received this news happily. My days of hip throws, foot sweeps, and head twisting - at least in Kendo - came virtually to a close."

I also found this on a website...
"In pre- World War II kendo, a 3 shaku 6 sun shinai similar in size to a real sword was used along with aggresive techniques such as choking, leg sweeps, throws and etc.. After the War, modern kendo replaced military style kendo with a focus on personal character development and sports. Modern kendo does not use all of the military kendo sword strikes or techniques."

I found this to be very interesting. Is anyone familiar with the way kendo was taught Pre-World War II?

**Light Samurai** · 28th February 2005, 08:46 AM

Wow. I would love to have pre-wprld war kendo... not really. It'd be like Kenjutsu with armor

**Pan-Chan** · 28th February 2005, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Light Samurai

Wow. I would love to have pre-wprld war kendo... not really. It'd be like Kenjutsu with armor

Not really, IMHO. It would seem to be exactly what that book had said, "a military style". Kenjutsu may not be Kendo, but it is still an art, and in some schools it does utilize armor.

It seems to me that pre-World War Kendo was a 'style' that had little underlying principle other than "kill them however". Which would mean that it wasn't actually Kendo. Since just like that quote says, Kendo, modern Kendo, is a way to improve one's self, not a way to learn how to kill someone efficiently.

But that is just my opinion that I have formed from the little knowledge I have on pre-World War Kendo. ^^;

I think I will be doing quite a bit of research on this topic, though.

ISSAC RU · 28th February 2005, 10:33 AM

There is a few video called " pre-war Kata''
If you are interested to see what ''kendo'' life was back then..

**Twobitmage** · 28th February 2005, 10:53 AM

I remember talking to a retired kendoist who said that back in the day the strikes used to be more like cuts, and that modern kendo is more like tapping.

**Musha** · 28th February 2005, 11:44 AM

When I came to Japan last month and started kendo the teacher said I should stike the guy imagining I was cutting to the sholders. My men doesn't fit and when we do kiri-kaeshi it really herts!

.
This made me think, kendo isn't a save calm martial art like Tai-chi form practice. We don't wear armor so we can feel more comfortable when we practice. We wear armor so we can do things that are not possible without it. Cut with nice cuts but people like you are going to kill them and really mean it.

Maybe I'm too old for it now but if you do some thing really stupid in Japan the teacher is going to tsuki mune you to the ground or smack you on the head.

I've heard there are some people who still practice that type of grappling kendo. I guess it would make kendo way too hard if we added judo to it but it still sounds fun

.

**nebosuke** · 28th February 2005, 01:33 PM

I have also heard that if you were to have your shinai knocked out of your hand, you had a very breif time to throw your kote at your opponent as if it were a shuriken.

**dnakase** · 28th February 2005, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by nebosuke

I have also heard that if you were to have your shinai knocked out of your hand, you had a very breif time to throw your kote at your opponent as if it were a shuriken.

WHAT?

Your kidding right?

**not-I** · 28th February 2005, 09:06 PM

Some of the pre-war grappling and rough stuff (like forcing an opponent to the ground and removing his men) is still practiced in many Japanese police dojos. There are a lot of crazy stories.

**Banza Joe** · 1st March 2005, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by nebosuke

I have also heard that if you were to have your shinai knocked out of your hand, you had a very breif time to throw your kote at your opponent as if it were a shuriken.

Lol.... sounds like handbags at dawn!
I doubt that a kote would impale your opponent. If its true, i would imagine there is a specific meaning behind this.

**nalogg** · 1st March 2005, 12:38 AM

From what I understand it was just like today's kendo but you could do anything else to intimidate your opponent, force him to move or throw him out of bounds ,including techniques akin to aikido, karate, and jujitsu.

We have a pre-war sensei who tells us all sorts of stories about his crazy kendo antics. For instance after having his shinai knocked out of his hands, he dove under a guy's legs and tripped him.

**Halcyon** · 1st March 2005, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by not-I

Some of the pre-war grappling and rough stuff (like forcing an opponent to the ground and removing his men) is still practiced in many Japanese police dojos. There are a lot of crazy stories.

Not just in Japan. Happens once in a while at our dojo too, but only to the more senior and/or hardy students who can take it. It usually happens at the tail end of jigeiko, when it switches over to kakarigeiko. There'll be some pretty intense taiatari, and if you lose your balance and fall ... well, let's just say you better not fall down.

You have to keep in mind that in the context of a traditional dojo, that kind of physical hazing is usually a sign of "affection," for lack of a better word. If a Japanese sensei doesn't give you a hard time, that means he/she doesn't really think it's worth their time to toughen you up yet. If they really put you through your paces, to the point where it might even seem abusive, that's when you know you're making some progress.

**not-I** · 1st March 2005, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Not just in Japan. Happens once in a while at our dojo too [...]

Indeed. At ours too. Having been pushed, knocked down, struck with "headache men" and tsuki-ed to the wall by sensei, i flatter myself by supposing i've been the recipient of his affection.

**Halcyon** · 1st March 2005, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by not-I

Indeed. At ours too. Having been pushed, knocked down, struck with "headache men" and tsuki-ed to the wall by sensei, i flatter myself by supposing i've been the recipient of his affection.

You lucky dog! Teacher's pet!