View Poll Results: What characteristic of a kendoka is the most prized?

Voters
80. You may not vote on this poll
  • Skill/Accomplishment/Knowledge

    5 6.25%
  • Persistance/Courage

    32 40.00%
  • Character/Personality

    31 38.75%
  • Other

    12 15.00%
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 67

Thread: The Most Valued Characteristic?

  1. #31
    Permanent Shoshinsha joekc6nlx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    West Central Ohio just north of Dayton.
    Posts
    1,520
    Country: United States
    In all seriousness, I voted for character/personality. Your character shows in how you approach kendo. If you are an honorable and respectful person, your kendo will also reflect that.

    For Ms. Kaoru, I understand that some people believe that drinking is wrong, or that we drink too much. We spend our time in the "second dojo" discussing what we did in class, what is coming up, what our plans are for the upcoming weeks. We could do all of this in the dojo, but we have to be out of there by a certain time, so all of our business is usually conducted at the "second dojo". Anyone who comes with us is NOT required to drink alcohol, and I will not look down on anyone who chooses that path. Everyone has their own comfort level with alcohol, and I will respect that. Hmm....seems to me that kendo is affecting my outside life. Good!
    Joe
    Miami Valley Kendo Club
    Dayton, Ohio
    www.miamivalleykendo.org
    Headquarters of East Central U.S. Kendo Federation

  2. #32
    \o/ \o/ \o/
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,123
    Country: United_States
    What do people mean by "character/personality"?

    I mean, courage and perserverence are character/personality traits.

    So when people say that the most important thing is a "good character" or "good personality," what does that mean? What makes up a "good personality" and, perhaps more to the point, which of those attributes are the most important ones?
    Arthur Hyun (玄)

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by joekc6nlx
    But better at making beer for the dojo parties! Since that is one of my hobbies, I get to brew the beer for our parties.
    Hey! Me, too! We seriously need to hang out. I have a keg of a very hoppy pale ale, and a copy of The Tao of Physics... that should get us at least part of the way into the metaphysics of Kendo.

  4. #34
    I think people can mostly agree on many of the important aspects of character. The main problem is not that people disgree on the important ideals, but that almost nobody knows how to act in a way that demonstrates those ideals.

    From what I have seen, few people actually attempt to question themselves about how to apply their ideals in the real life situations they experience. Instead they default to their own self interest, or allow their political or religious leaders to tell them what to do.

    As long as people are too lazy or ignorant to actually figure out how to use their ideals to direct their everyday actions, I don't think it really matters what ideals they claim to embrace.

  5. #35
    Permanent Shoshinsha joekc6nlx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    West Central Ohio just north of Dayton.
    Posts
    1,520
    Country: United States
    Quote Originally Posted by hyuna
    What do people mean by "character/personality"?

    I mean, courage and perserverence are character/personality traits.

    So when people say that the most important thing is a "good character" or "good personality," what does that mean? What makes up a "good personality" and, perhaps more to the point, which of those attributes are the most important ones?
    When in doubt, I fall back on the Golden Rule. If I don't show respect and consideration for people, then I have no right to expect respect and consideration in return. How I handle myself in situations where people refuse to be respectful also reflects my own personality and character.

    As for character/personality traits, so is meanness, cruelty, hatred, bigotry, disregard for others, etc., etc., etc.

    What we are trying to convey in kendo is what the samurai believed that they were the moral examples for the lower classes (farmers, artisans, merchants).

    I suppose you could argue that Character/personality is a broad subject, and you'd be right. Perhaps what Charlie was trying to demonstrate was the honorable and morally/ethically right way to live inside and outside of the dojo.
    Joe
    Miami Valley Kendo Club
    Dayton, Ohio
    www.miamivalleykendo.org
    Headquarters of East Central U.S. Kendo Federation

  6. #36
    \o/ \o/ \o/
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,123
    Country: United_States
    Quote Originally Posted by JByrd
    I think people can mostly agree on many of the important aspects of character. The main problem is not that people disgree on the important ideals, but that almost nobody knows how to act in a way that demonstrates those ideals.
    I don't really think "the important aspects of character" really are that clear.

    There are some words and phrases we all can say but the meaning is often very obscure. Like when people talk of "the golden rule" as "do unto others as I would have them do unto me." That doesn't say anything without talking about what you consider acceptable to do to you. When there is some hard criticism, would you rather people be mean but honest? Or would you rather people be kind but bend the truth? Different people answer differently because some value hard truth (sincerity) more than kindness (courtesy) and vice-versa. Saying that people should be "considerate" is exactly the same. Saying people should be "benevolent" -- is "tough love" benevolent or cruel? These things seem obvious to oneself and to people who have similar opinions as you, but they are very obscure otherwise.

    From what I have seen, few people actually attempt to question themselves about how to apply their ideals in the real life situations they experience. Instead they default to their own self interest, or allow their political or religious leaders to tell them what to do.
    This statement suggests many sorts of values:
    That people should be introspective and question how they ought to behave, that people should have principles ("ideals") that are external to "real life" that can be applied to it (since if they were not external, in what sense could they be "applied"?), that people should not be "self-interested", presumably that means be more interested in the welfare of others than themselves, and that people should be independent minded rather than simply being told what to do.

    But, in fact, I would argue that most canonical kendo teaching, especially for beginners, is inconsistent with at least some of these ideals. For example, we are not supposed to think about how to act, but, rather, simply to act when the time comes and the opportunity presents itself. We are not supposed to be independent minded. As I mentioned earlier, what it means to be not "self-interested" is rather obscure even if the meaning seems clear to the person who says it. But, even so, if we are taught to think of crossing shinai as crossing swords, what kind of consideration is it that we teach when we are trying to "kill" our opponent? Kendo does teach us to have some ideals outside of "real life" that are applied to our lives, so that matches, at least.

    Perhaps it is the case that kendo gives you the "strength of character" necessary to live up to your ideals. But then which is more important? Character or Courage and Perseverence to follow it?

    As long as people are too lazy or ignorant to actually figure out how to use their ideals to direct their everyday actions, I don't think it really matters what ideals they claim to embrace.
    It matters because if our goal in kendo is to teach people to act as they "should" without hesitation, then we strive to teach them to be, at least, not too lazy to use them to direct their everyday actions. If someone is "evil" and we give them the determination and ability to act the way they see fit, then we empower "evil" unless we somehow can "fix" their character.

    That statement should make it clear why I bring up the question of what "good character" means. If you are someone who believes in "good" vs "evil" then you must train correct character and attitudes. It is, then, important to know what "correct character" means in a deeper and more complete sense than "the golden rule." If you are a relativist that does not believe in "good" vs "evil" and just that different people of different cultures have different ideals, then what does it mean to say that "character" is important?
    Arthur Hyun (玄)

  7. #37
    Back To Kihon kanyil's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    794
    Country: Taiwan
    How about just plain old vanilla "nice"?

    While not a requirement for kendo, I have almost never came across a kendoka that's not a nice person.

    Even if some might be a little scruffy/rude on the outside, they will eventually warm up and can transform into the nicest persons once they get used to your presence.
    Kanyil
    Mine Men's Club

    路逢劍客需呈劍,不是詩人莫獻詩。

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by JByrd
    I think people can mostly agree on many of the important aspects of character. The main problem is not that people disgree on the important ideals, but that almost nobody knows how to act in a way that demonstrates those ideals.
    Hmm...can't remember where I read this, but there was a great article on why practicing budo makes one a better person.

    Rather than making an assertion about morality, the article makes a point about how to be a "great" martial artist, one has to have dignity.

    If that dignity carries over to one's daily life, it's bound to make one a better person.

    Kind of goes with the whole discussion about western and eastern society being "guilt-based" and "shame-based" society though....

    FWIW.

  9. #39
    Yudansha Pokie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia down under
    Posts
    355
    i think character is very important..look at where it is..look at it deeper and you'll find b-e-e-r, so beer is important..very important..maybe that's why japanese are very strong in kendo..that's why dojos should leave a space in the treasury for a "beer for kendo" fund...who's up for that !?
    "Never, never, never give up!"

  10. #40
    養心は& Musha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atsugishi
    Posts
    980
    Country: Japan
    "character/personality"?
    To be able to tell a good joke and stand out from the class?
    No I don't think I'm a hachi dan
    Just a very good shodan .
    "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics- even if you win, you're still retarded."

  11. #41
    養心は& Musha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atsugishi
    Posts
    980
    Country: Japan
    While not a requirement for kendo, I have almost never came across a kendoka that's not a nice person.
    I've seen some very scary kendo-ka in both England and Japan. People you think, I got to stay away from that guy..

    This young Japanese guy fences me like he wants to see how many bruses he can give. He also mumbles some thing in seiza, maybe "Why's this gaijin guy sitting next to me". I fenced him for about twenty minutes taking rib doues and floor kotes and came to the conclusion that hes just a crap kendo-ka .
    Last edited by Musha; 8th April 2005 at 01:18 PM.
    No I don't think I'm a hachi dan
    Just a very good shodan .
    "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics- even if you win, you're still retarded."

  12. #42
    You want fries with that? The great I AM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    In a country where people think CHICKEN is traditional christmas food......for crying out loud.
    Posts
    2,991
    Country: England
    Quote Originally Posted by Musha
    This young Japanese guy fences me like he wants to see how many bruses he can give. He also mumbles some thing in seiza, maybe "Why's this gaijin guy sitting next to me". I fenced him for about twenty minutes taking rib doues and floor kotes and came to the conclusion that hes just a crap kendo-ka .
    You are a better man than I Mister Musha. I wouldn't have stood for that. It still amazes me (am I still that naive) how you can have a wonderful experience in kendo with some really generous and great japanese people, and then racist little sh!ts like your pal there come along with his obvious "gaijin doing kendo is wrong" attitude and try to hurt you. You must have the will power of a saint!

    Who is the scary british kendoka you were talking about? Do we know them?
    I am Gibbo - Master of dick and fart jokes - now with added meat poo!

    http://lostboys.uclkendo.org/
    Twitter me like a 14 year old high school girl @kendogibbo

  13. #43
    sakeholic & shiaiholic Paburo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Madrid
    Posts
    1,607
    Country: Spain
    jakob is right. all the great hachidans and kyudan i know are sakeholics. seems like one must master the sword at the time one masters the alcohol.

    also, a keen sense of humour is always nice in a kendoka. kyu to kyudan. gotta love those smiling jokeful hachidan senseis!
    Kenshi-Katagi [剣士気質]
    http://kenshi-katagi.blogspot.com/

  14. #44
    Yudansha iam_pk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    middlesbrough -_-..
    Posts
    123
    Country: Hong Kong
    courage!!! coz if u scare of it, u lose already~

    人不作出犧牲
    就不會得到任何收穫
    如果想得到一樣東西
    就一定要付出對等的代價
    錬金術の基本は「等価交換」

    ∝(,,゚Д゚) [*゚w゚]
    豆 & 鎧

  15. #45
    養心は& Musha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atsugishi
    Posts
    980
    Country: Japan
    You are a better man than I Mister Musha. I wouldn't have stood for that. It still amazes me (am I still that naive) how you can have a wonderful experience in kendo with some really generous and great japanese people, and then racist little sh!ts like your pal there come along with his obvious "gaijin doing kendo is wrong" attitude and try to hurt you. You must have the will power of a saint!

    Who is the scary british kendoka you were talking about? Do we know them?
    I can't work him out so can't say if he really doen't like me or just feels his kendo is better than any one but the sensei's. His bow is sloppy, his fencing is lax he turns up late for class with his friends and doesn't bother to warm up with every one else some times. His kendo is crap thats all I can say.

    I've done some hard sports in my time and being hit with a shiai is nothing to being stamped on by people with studs in rugby and floored.

    I can't tell you the British guys name because he is a sensei. Its just my thirteen, some thing year old friend said he was tsukied by him whilst doing keiko and he got scared of him ever since.
    Last edited by Musha; 9th April 2005 at 02:44 AM.
    No I don't think I'm a hachi dan
    Just a very good shodan .
    "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics- even if you win, you're still retarded."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •