Shinsengumi History: Ikedaya Affair!

[WolfofMibu]

will do Okita

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

found some info on the ikedaya incident and on your battle that you were asking about wolf.

here it is

Shinsengumi (“Newly Selected Corps”), a police force of disenfranchised samurai, organized at the end of the Tokugawa period (1616-1867) by the Kyoto protectorate of Aizu Domain, evokes various images in modern Japanese history. About 140 years ago, starting in 1863 (Bunkyū 3), they maintained order and controlled the lawless rōnin (“masterless samurai”) in the then-chaotic former capital of Kyoto. Operating as a corps, this group wielded their swords and used force to bring about law and order. Siding with the bakufu (Tokugawa government), they were feared by the loyalists (J., shishi, literally “men of high ideals”) of the imperialistic sonno jōi (lit., “revering the emperor and overthrowing the barbarians”) movement of the Chōshū and Tosa Provinces.
In the sixth month of 1864 (Genji 1), the Shinsengumi attacked and killed loyalists staying at the Ikedaya Inn near the smaller Sanjō Bridge. This historical event, known as the Ikedaya Incident, represented a major triumph for the group and marked a turning point for the bakufu disturbances that were to follow. After dealing with inner strife and purges from within the ranks, the Shinsengumi fought as the bakufu vanguard in the Toba Fushimi Battle during the first month of 1868 (Keiō 4). Although they were defeated by the the Satsuma-Chōshū army, their main force fled to Edo (present-day Tokyo) and continued fighting for the bakufu in the battles of Katsunuma in Kōshū Province (now Yamanashi Prefecture), Aizu (western Fukushima Prefecture), and Hakodate in Hokkaidō.
The activities of the Shinsengumi have long been interpreted as having been carried out against the rebel forces of Satsuma and Chōshū, which established the new Meiji government. Because of this, this corps has long been portrayed as the enemies of the loyalist movement in films and novels. However, the discovery of previously unknown sources has prompted the need for a reexamination of this force.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

go to this website to see some cool stuff on display that some members of the shinsengumi owned. http://www2.kyohaku.go.jp/tokuchin/sinsen/bun2e.htm

[GoldenShinai]

thank you everyone for all of the info. Especially okita. I was wondering if you knew anything about Saito Hajime Besides that he was a master of Itto Ryu swordsmanship. I would like to know something about his life since he is my favorite member and i also know he commanded the 3red unit. Thanks for the info on everyon else.

dude, i did some research, and i am pretty pissed. apparently they made Hajime into a character in Ruroni Kenshin. When i typed in his name, all that came up was stupid anime fan websites with no real information, exept for what you previously stated about him being leader of the 3rd unit.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

ok folks, I have found the answers and info i have been searching for, and a little more , this thread may now be used by any of you who want to talk about the shinsengumi, I have almost all of the answers about them now so ask my anything you want and i will do my best to find the answer and reply.

thanks for all the help everybody,
enjoy the thread,
and I am glad to see that there are so many shinsengumi fans out there.

thanks again

Okita-sama

oh yeah, one more thing...
in case any of you were wondering what really happened at the ikedaya incident here it is, however, i disagree with what the person says, this person says that the shinsengumi's best swordsman was Shinpachi Nagakura, however, most of my sources say that Souji Okita was, but you be the judge.

http://www.merit5.co.jp/gyosei/chofu...hinsengumi.jpg


Shinsengumi Association Chofu Office, Tel: 81-7308
Industrial Promotion Office, Tel: 81-7184

To write the article for this issue (No. 14), we asked Jun Yokota, a member of the Shinsengumi Club bulletin "Hekketsuhi."

"We are on duty, and we will kill any outlaws without mercy..."
On the second floor of the Kyoto inn Ikedaya on June 5, 1864, Kondo Isami shouted these words concerning the lawless swordsmen he had been searching for.

Thus began the bloody tumult. However, being outnumbered, the Shinsengumi fought an uphill battle even though they were skilled swordsmen. Of the 10 Shinsengumi members with Kondo at the Ikedaya melee, three men were fatally injured. In addition, Okita Soji collapsed, Todo Heisuke was injured and Kondo himself could not move as he was surrounded by several swordsmen. The conflict continued in a tense showdown with the heroic fighting of Shinsengumi's top swordsman Nagakura Shinpachi.

Just then, the Hijikata group, which had been elsewhere at the time, rushed to Ikedaya to help. The fighting then took a dramatic turn, and Shinsengumi were victorious.
With the fall of the main swordsmen who were aiming to destroy the Shogunate, some say that the Meiji Restoration was delayed by one or two years, while others say that it made the Meiji Restoration happen more quickly. In either case, the Ikedaya Incident was definitely a turning point in the history of the end of the Shogunate.

Upon hearing of the incident, the enraged Choshu-han clan sent soldiers to Kyoto. The Kinmon-no-hen uprising ensued, and the feudal government carried out a punitive expedition against the defeated Choshu-han clan, placing the blame on them for the uprising. The powerful government force of the Shogunate began to pose a threat for the Satsuma-han clan, which, until then, had worked together with the Shogunate, and the Satsuma-Choshu Alliance was established. Furthermore, the history of the end of the Shogunate moved even quicker with the Boshin War.

At the time of the Ikedaya incident, the number of soldiers dispatched was 34; even including those remaining on guard, there were still only 40.
The reason for this is related to the main objective of the formation of the Shinsengumi. While the Shinsengumi worked to provide security in the city of Kyoto, their ultimate goal was to maintain respect for the Emperor and maintain anti-alienism. The Shogunate, which was subject to the wishes of the Imperial Court, was supposed to pour its efforts into fighting to eliminate foreign influence within Japan. However, since the Shogunate hesitated in moving forward in the anti-alien movement, it is said that in the month before the incident, Kondo filed a request to disband the Shinsengumi if no action was taken against foreigners. The relatively small number of soldiers was the result of deserters who were dissatisfied with not being able to achieve satisfaction on anti-alienism.

Thus, the victory in the incident shows that the Shinsengumi was truly a group of experts at maintaining security in the city, regardless of their personal ideals.
The Shinsengumi were woven into the organization of the Shogunate. The Shogunate started to collapse and there was nothing the Shinsengumi could do to stop it. The end came with the Boshin War. This is the truly sad part of the Shinsengumi.

[Gedan_914]

Shinsengumi fans unite! Haha this thread shot off like a rocket. Well not much else to add other than voicing my personal like of the Shinsengumi (My favorite captain was Okita ).

As far as info goes my knowledge of Ikedaya has already been shared as to who, what, where and why. What I do know that might interest Shinsengumi fans is that Hijikata created a supposedly genius thrust/slash technique called the Hirazuki. It was supposed to lack a blind spot due to the fact that if the thrust missed it could instantly turned into a wide slash (note to relatively new Kendo people: It would probably not be in your best interest to try and learn this attack on your own (I'm not even sure if it can be applied in Kendo)).

You're all going on the buddy list thing!

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

hey thanks gedan for adding your part.

[ky0zero]

Hey guys, if you're really interested in the history of the Shinsengumi and how they came about and how they ended, theres a Japanese TV Series which aired last year called 'Shinsengumi'. PM me if you want the links as to where to download the series. Its a 49 episode show with english subtitles too. Its a very interesting and moving j-dorama!!!
The review can be seen here (http://www.jdorama.com/drama.857.htm)

Enjoy!

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

Okay . . . So I lied, I need more information, I found that there are like 10 captains that I don't have any information on, please tell me stuff about

Heisuke Todou
Seisuke Yamanami
Susumu Yamazaki
Takeda Kanryuusai
Itou Kashitarou
Matsubara Chouji
Inoue Genzaburou
Tani Sanjiyuro
Suzuki Mikisaburou
Shimada Kai

thanks,

Okita

[Light Samurai]

I've ben looking for stuff on it as well. Thanks Okita. I hope to take Tennen-Rishin Ryu in Japan, although it's somewhat un-realistic that I will, I can hope. You can also add me to your Buddy List.

Peace.

[Taek]

Taek, that is interesting. when wast this movie made? I would like to see that.

I'm not sure when exactly the movie is made but it must've been made pretty recently.
It is not a kind of full on sword fighting stuff but I enjoyed watching it. I won't tell you the story as it will spoil the joy if you are planing to watch it. I don't think it is out in the video shops but you might be able to get a copy at DVD shops in China town......

[Optomitrist]

Mibu-Ro[Okita] wrote:

The Shogunate, which was subject to the wishes of the Imperial Court, was supposed to pour its efforts into fighting to eliminate foreign influence within Japan. However, since the Shogunate hesitated in moving forward in the anti-alien movement, it is said that in the month before the incident, Kondo filed a request to disband the Shinsengumi if no action was taken against foreigners.

I'm confused. I thought the shogunate DID cheer for nationalism and isolationism. And that the emperor want the bring japan up to date. Can you clarify.

On a side note. Kenshin, fought against the shinsengumi, making him a loyalist to the emperor, correct?

[reg]

I'm confused. I thought the shogunate DID cheer for nationalism and isolationism. And that the emperor want the bring japan up to date. Can you clarify.

yes, but external pressures forced the bakufu to open japan up for trade [perry's doing] the emperor before meiji were against opening the country.

On a side note. Kenshin, fought against the shinsengumi, making him a loyalist to the emperor, correct?

no, because the shinsengumi were loyal to the bakufu, and the bakufu was always loyal to the emperor, making kenshin a dirty, dirty radical.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

On a side note. Kenshin, fought against the shinsengumi, making him a loyalist to the emperor, correct?[/QUOTE]


Actually Reg, Optometrists statement does have some truth, but there are a few problems. Let me explain,
1. Kenshin served Kogoro Katsura in Samurai-X, Kogoro Katsura was a real person and was a Choshu swordsman, Katsura was involved in the Ikedaya incident, but managed to get away. Katsura was a loyalist, but Kenshin was only serving him, he didn't care beans about the emperor.

2. Kenshin is not real.

[Optomitrist]

1. Kenshin served Kogoro Katsura in Samurai-X, Kogoro Katsura was a real person and was a Choshu swordsman, Katsura was involved in the Ikedaya incident, but managed to get away. Katsura was a loyalist, but Kenshin was only serving him, he didn't care beans about the emperor.

2. Kenshin is not real.

I know he is not real, its anime. but the time period was real and I just want to see things in the propper prospective.

So the Shinsengumi were police working for the shogun, not the emperor. The emperor at the time had how much influence at this age?