Why a wallhanger is extremely dangerous, shown in photos. Please READ.

[Ookami7]

Just to jump in here and reply to your question on Iaido vrs Tameshigiri in defining it. and the why not etc. Iaido, Battou jutsu, Battou Do etc are all the same term. It applies to the art of drawing a blade, cutting w/ said blade and following a specific ryu or style of swordsmanship. Tameshigiri is test cutting using rolled up tatami mats or bamboo as targets. You have to first have correct hatsuji or cutting angle. Kendo does not teach you that. I am a Kenshi ie Kendoist as well as a practicioner of Iaido. Some of my Iaido has been difficult because of Kendo since the cutting angle is different and alot of Tameshigiri focuses on Kesa cuts ie diagonal cuts steeper then a dou cut in kendo. I still have trouble with my kesa and this is even after being taught by a 8th dan and having done Tameshigiri twice. Iaido or Batto do ryus teach you the technique and proper way to cut. So you can`t do it with out first injurying your self or missing target, or only half cutting the target.
So there you go.

[Ookami7]

Thing won`t let me edit it. The problem w/ only doing Kendo and trying to do Tameshigiri is that in Kendo your stance has one foot raised. In Tameshigiri you keep both feet on the floor when cutting. Thus you can cut through the target with the right force. One of the comments my 8th dan Sensei (Soga Sensei from Yokosuka ,Jp) says is that even 8th dan Kenshi wouldn`t be able to cut properly because of raised heel issue. Anyways just some thoughts on it. Also if a diff style of Martial Arts included training similar to Iaido etc that focused on properly cutting then I could see including that as well. However I am not aware of anything, but I could be wrong lol.
mata, Ookami yori / Jeff

[ScottUK]

The problem w/ only doing Kendo and trying to do Tameshigiri is that in Kendo your stance has one foot raised.

?

even 8th dan Kenshi wouldn`t be able to cut properly because of raised heel issue.

I can... so, I don't quite understand that.

[pgsmith]

Hmmmm ... strangely enough, Toyama ryu has no problems with a raised heel. As far as I know, they cut more than anyone!

Be very wary of attempting to make blanket statements. At least not until you've got that hachidan yourself!

[ScottUK]

...so I don't need to apply for hachidan yet either...?

[pgsmith]

...so I don't need to apply for hachidan yet either...?

I would guess that it depends upon what sort of statement you're making in the blankets! Should we ask your missus if you're ready?

[Ookami7]

Hey Scott, what I ment by that is that when you are cutting, you don`t have your foot raised like in a kendo stance. The proper way or at least explained to me is both feet flat on the ground like a basic Iai stance. The foot is never raised off the ground like a kendo stance ie left heel up, right flat. This was explained to me by my Sensei in Yokosuka and he practices Toyama ryu and his own style.
Hope that helps clear it up!

[ScottUK]

Another blanket statement, Jeff.

While some of the koryu iai differ, basic seitei iai stance is 'heel up'. It is very possible to cut effectively like that as I have done it hundreds of times.

I also learned from a Toyama guy, btw.

[Ookami7]

Hmmmm ... strangely enough, Toyama ryu has no problems with a raised heel. As far as I know, they cut more than anyone!

Be very wary of attempting to make blanket statements. At least not until you've got that hachidan yourself!

Just passing on how it was explained to me. If someone else gots any thing better let me know. I also know this from experience cause I used to do #11 Seite Gata with my heel up in a Kendo stance since it was orginally explained to me that the movement while cutting was similar to Kendo stance. The problem was I was not getting correct hatsuji on my cuts other then the side to side cut. After my Sensei here in Yokosuka explained it to me, I could tell from my Iai tou sound that I was making the correct hatsuji and this was from droping my foot down and draging it instead. As said was responding to a earlier thread on here, so I`m just trying to state my position as best as I can. Anyone with more experience feel free to correct me. Speaking of which I just heard from my friend that my Sensei, Soga Sensei at this last weeks practice did a Tameshigiri cut with the Katana in one hand and the wakazashi in the other hand. Damn missed it. Next time gotta have him get it on tape!

[Ookami7]

Just trying to explain as best as I can. As I said this is what I have been told and what I experienced. So can`t say or do anything more. Maybe this is one of those areas where you can only get by with blanket statements. Anyways thats as much as I can state one way or the other on the topic!

[Ookami7]

Also what I am refering to in heel up is the standing forms, not the kneeling ones.

[ScottUK]

I also know this from experience cause I used to do #11 Seite Gata with my heel up in a Kendo stance since it was orginally explained to me that the movement while cutting was similar to Kendo stance.

I have also seen three different lines of MJER (and one of MSR) somakuri done with the same foot position (but different footwork) to the seiteigata. Heel raised.

Speaking of which I just heard from my friend that my Sensei, Soga Sensei at this last weeks practice did a Tameshigiri cut with the Katana in one hand and the wakazashi in the other hand. Damn missed it. Next time gotta have him get it on tape!

Obata sensei also does nito tameshigiri. Did Soga sensei do any kodachi cutting or just holding the kodachi while cutting with the odachi?

Also what I am refering to in heel up is the standing forms, not the kneeling ones.

Me too...

[Ookami7]

I can`t tell you for sure, as I said I missed the demo and just heard from my friend today as we were talking. Rereading your post - what I was getting at by even 8th dan kendoist ie is assuming that they don`t have any Iai or batto jutsu training or so I`m taking the meaning from my Sensei. As I said these are his words and I`m just passing them along. Could just be the grumbling of one Sensei verse anothers style who knows. I just found that kinda interesting that it was his point of view. So if I stated that in the wrong light sorry about it! Huh thats interesting! Thanks for sharing and correcting me lol. Yeah the same with Seite gata #2 I`ve heard from diff sources that you start the draw before turning and complete it once you have turned around. Other way was complete the turn then you draw -- with the idea being that if your in tight quarters you can complete the turn and then attack where as if you started the draw you would be stuck in mid rotation. Getting back to the Tameshigiri nito question, Soga Sensei does do kotachi Tameshigiri by its self practicing kotachi kata. Have seen a few of thoses. Let me throw up a couple of links of vids my friend has on youtube. Then I will probably head out. I`m at net cafe and don`t want to rack up charges too bad!

[Ookami7]

http://www.youtube.com/user/curlywolf

here is the link, hope it works!
The boat, Toyama Ryu demo and Toyama Ryu Tameshigiri demo are all ones of
Soga Sensei

[Fred27]

I cant be arsed to read this entire thread so sorry if this has been posted, but I noticed the link to the sword-forum topic about the guy cutting himself is incorrect..(now anyways).

Here is the new one.