Harai Vs. Suriage

[nodachi]

I hope I spelled that right...

What is the difference between Harai and suriage? I know there are subtle differences that confuse me and no has explained it to me. And of course, the question pops into my head AFTER practice and not during, stupid me...

[ben]

Well, again there's a thread that dealt with this a little while ago... In Aus it used to be consistently the case that harai was considered shikake (attacking) waza and suriage only oji (counter-attacking) waza. However I have met experienced kendoka recently who use harai to describe a counterattacking technique, say men-harai-men, which I would have called men-suriage-men, and vice-versa.

With beginners I would stick with the orthodoxy of harai=shikake and suriage=oji, until their command of the techniques is solid. Eventually they will see how the techniques morph into each other and won't need to rely on terminology.

The main difference though IMHO is that while harai can be performed in four directions (ue-kara omote, ue-kara ura, shita-kara omote, shita-kara ura) suriage has only two variations (shita-kara omote and shita-kara ura) 'coz as the name suggests, the movement is a 'RISING slide'.

Although at what point does ue-kara omote no harai waza become uchiotoshi waza? Or is that harai-otoshi?

b

[Steve]

Suriage is a deflection technique. you use the (ura or omote) side of your shinai to parry the incoming attack. The key point is that you don't "hit" your opponents shinai, you cause it to slide away at an angle that gives you control of centre.

Harai is where you physically "attack" the shinai, hitting it out of the way. You can use harai to break the kamae of your opponent and attack, or you can hit an incoming attack out of your way.

Suriage can only be used against an incoming attack, where harai can be used on an incoming attack or to initiate one of your own. Hence the classification of shikake and oji.

[Paburo]

according to what they've taught me, the difference between suriage and harai is the angle of the hit/block and the movement of the shinai.

harai is more like this:

-------> omote
<------ ura

otoshi like this:

\
..\
....\
.....V
omote

..../
.../
../
.V
ura

while suriage is more like this.

<-
|...\
|.....\
|...../
|..../
v../
omote
(and vice versa for ura - im lazy)

i don't know why you say suriage is an oji-waza only move. our sensei taught us suriage kote both as counter attack and as an initial attack...

also they taught us hari, which is another similar move to harai.
i don't know if this is the way they teach it at other dojos. i wish there was an official explanation to all these...

[aru-ma]

hmm.... I always thought that harai wasmore like:
€
€
or
/
/
respectively(ura/omote)

I'm not sure about otoshi-waza I've done it one time and someone said that was wrong.

[JSchmidt]

I was also taught suriage as shikake-waza and occasionally use it with quite reasonable success. (It only works once :P)

Jakob

[Steve]

another difference between the two is where you actually make contact on the opponents shinai.


==|===:==: Here is the shinai, the pic below shows you where to make contact for either harai or suriage.

==|=h=:s=: Long story short, suriage connects just above the nakayui and harai connects about halfway between the tsuka and nakayui. (Lower is better)

I got this out of a Kendo book from Japan. after trying harai waza, hitting the proper spot on my opponents shinai my success with it increased a huge amount!

[aru-ma]

I thought I've seen everything but this just takes the cake, explaining waza with ASCII. and I thought it couldnt be done.

[nukido]

Suriage - to slide up
Harai - to strike away

The above answers are all valid. I use suriage and harai as both shikake (attack) and oji (counter) waza.

Suriage uses a slightly cuved, motion from lower chudan to upper chudan while the hands and wrists snap your kensen up your opponent's shinai.

I've found that harai works best for me when I make a sharp strike with the monouchi (sometimes the tip) of my shinai on the opponent's shinai just above the tsuba.

Both get the kensen of the opponent out of the way, just enough to open up men or kote.

Suriage and harai can also open do, as the reaction of the opponent's shinai goes up to cover a men strike.

Happy hunting!

[supernils]

Just to clarify

Suri - sliding motion
Age - upwards

There is also:
Suri Komi - Inwards
Suri Otoshi - Downwards
Suri Nagashi - Backwards, outwards

I'm extremely unsure about the spelling or actual meaning of the japanes words. But they are called something like that.
They are all used in Kodachi no Kata Sanbome.

I bet someóne in this forum can get it right.