Fighting against a nito kenshi?

[munenmuso]

Did you ever fenced against a nito player, what is it like? If you are faced with one, what will you gonna do to overcome him?

What technique do you often use against his two shinai? Is it really difficult to defeat them?

[Tashaki Nakata]

The match is pointless. Niten Ichi Ryu is a totally different style. You're talking like a 5 year old rookie: "Who will win. Arnold Schwarzeneger or Hiroyuki Tsukamoto. Arnold is very strong, but Hiroyuki is much faster and very slippery..."

[emitbrownne]

A little harsh, dont you think? I believe munenmuso is trying to establish the differerences in styles and the different types of actions and reactions that both participants take.
I do not think munenmuso was trying to find out "which technique is the best".

I have never studied Nito and have only fenced against a practitioner once (and that was in my second ever training session). It is an experience....

sorry munenmuso but I cant give an opinion on this topic really...

[GMason]

More to the point he is not talking about Niten Ichi Ryu.......

He is talking about Nito Kendo, which are worlds apart. I'm sure Hyaku will confirm this if he on the board anytime soon.

I think, it is quite difficult to say this technique works best against a Nito fencer, just like it is difficult to say this technique works best against a Chudan fencer, as every fencer is different, and of varying skill, but having said that........ alots of spirit and Nidan/Sandan Waza is usually quite effective.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Some people use special kamae. I've seen one where the hands are held quite high and the kensen is pointing left. It looks like it exposes kote but seems effective.

Aside from that, no advice. I've played only two nito guys. One guy was about my level and I found that playing physical and close worked OK. The other is a Canadian national team member and I can't do squat with him, no matter what I try.

[Charlie]

Over the weekend, I watched some top players fence a very good nito guy. Thing is, nito is difficult to do well, from what I understand, so if you have the confidence to do it in shiai, you're probably quite good! Otherwise, forget it. Also, it's difficult to judge the score as a shinpan.

One player I watched did quite well against the nito guy by, as Gendzwill said, playing close and aggressive. The kamae was like fighting against jodan, kensen at opponent's upraised left fist.

I dunno, it's out of my league, but if it were me I'd be hammering on those kote and prolly get do and men for my troubles.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You have to be very careful about distance. Either be outside, or right in their face. If you try to play the middle, you get sucked in too close and then they control your shinai with the shoto and pound you men with the daito. Tip to tip is no good in this case!

[Tashaki Nakata]

I've also fought once against a nito kenshi. It was pretty difficult. But either nito in kendo or Niten Ryu, i think kendo is for one sword only.

[sminki]

Just curious as to why you feel that way. After all, isn't nito way of fighting recognized by AJKF (or Zen Ken Ren as you guys say)? I have seen people testing for their hachi dan using nito. So why is kendo for one sword only?

[Tashaki Nakata]

I think Kendo is for 1 sword only because Kendo isn't a martial art, it is a sport. It should have strict rules on equipment. I'm not against originality (using Jodan No Kamae, for instance, is trully spectacular. My specialty in fact). But it's a fact that using nitto can be an advantage. There are special nitto matches. If you're so facinated, go learn nitto.

[Neil Gendzwill]

According to the rules nito is allowed, so you have to deal with it. If it were such a huge advantage there would be lots of players using it but the fact of the matter is that only a few people have the athletic ability and skill to play nito well. Nito players are fairly routinely beaten by itto players.

[sminki]

Wow. A Japanese guy from Kanazawa claiming that kendo is not a budo. Well, whether kendo is in fact a budo or a sport is a whole stand-alone issue in and of its own (and I do believe that it is a personal issue), so I won't go into that, but with your permission, I will certainly go learn nito if I become fascinated by it.

I happen to agree with Neil on this point. Nito is within the rules so we all have to deal with it. AND if it were truly more advantageous than itto, why don't we see more All Japan Kendo Champs with more nito players? As far as I know, there isn't a single kenshi who won the AJKC with nito (although I hear that one of Toda Tadao sensei's specialty was nitto, I don't know if he in fact won the 10th AJKC back in 1962 using nito). In fact, the way Musashi (at least according to popular beliefs) developed nitto when he was a more aged/experience/wise fencer which suggests that it really takes more control/effort/experience to effectively use two swords.

I guess if you really feel strongly about the "kendo should be itto" philosophy, you could attain 8 - 10 dan sometime and convince the other kodansha to ban nito from modern kendo.

[Steve]

i have fenced with the same Team Canada member that Mr. Gendzwill did a few times. I couldn't touch him.... The best thing to fight nito is to liken it to Jodan. Keep out of their range, or go right up in their face. Try drawing an attack out of them, then capitalize on the opening. Saying that is easy....doing it is another.

[Nishi]

I have fenced two nito players, one of which has been trained in Japan (Both 3rd dan)... I was given advice by one of my instructors (godan) who said "once you know your way thru a nito player, the path is usually the same"...So far so good!

I also find that taking Jodan gives nito players a different threat from what thier used to. Beacuse jodan is such a pro-active kamae it is very fast, and with this, an Itto kendoka can exploit the three main target areas...the kote, right saya men, and the do(exposed side). I'm not a good jodan fencer by any stretch, but damn is it fun!!!!!


Yamae............TSUKI!!

[alexpollijr]

Nito is absolutely not an 'unfair' advantage. As all the guys above have said, we would have plenty of bamboo flying around these days if nito was to win more matches.

With Ito you have the two hands on the sword, which means that you can strike faster and have more control over bloked/deflected strikes and thus recovery time is shorter. Also,in chudan no kamae, you have a vast array of possibilities to initiate or counter an attack.

Additionally, with Nito 99% of the time the blows delivered with the shoto will not count as valid points. So it's mostly about one sword anyway. Also, the myriad of waza available is pretty small, same goes for jodan.