spirits, swords, culturally sensitive

[JohnHershman]

(Sorry if something similar has been posted)
I know that there is a lot of mysticism behind Swords esp behind the Katana. Now I am a Christian(kinda hand in hand with the kendo and Christ post), in fact I am a pastor. and I do have some trouble with certain aspects of Iaido and Kendo and almost any martial art for that matter. BUT I have come to some revelations in my life on these. First I should qualify that I do believe in Spirits(demons and angels, God, The Holy Spirit and so on) and I do believe demons can affect a person through objects, for instance swords that are made with the religious ceremonies. This can be taken are of through prayer.

now all that said here are some of my revelations.
In Iaido when one bows to the sword it has roots in ancestor worship of Japan, I throw that mentality out the door and bow before the God I have pledged my life to. Same in Kenpo. When asked to meditate, i do a biblical meditation... I dont clear my mind I reflect on God or his Word.
When asked to participate in Japanese cermonies of any kind I DO participate.... all for one reason. I am trying to be culturally relevent. When I went to My recently deceased grand master's widow's house we burned incense and stuff of that nature. But instead of giving the dead well wishes, we prayed for his wife and hoped for doors of ministry to open. If we had not done what we did the door would have been shut and we would have insulted a friends wife.

the point is you can throw the bath water out AND keep the baby in Martial Arts, Kendo and iaido.
thats my rant for now.. stay tuned

[nodachi]

It's good to hear that there are people out there who are able to do what you did. Going through someone else's ritual and ceremony, but believing/praying/thinking in your own faith and rituals. It doesn't seem hard to me to give the outward perception to others that you are being respectful of their traditions, but still being true to your own on the inside. I don't think actions like this offend people's faith because isn't the importance in how we practice our religion based in our hearts and our thoughts and not the outward perceptions and actions of little ceremonies, even though they may be different. Some people get so hung up on the differences in how we practice our faiths that they can't find a compromise between them when most faiths are very similar.

That's my random thoughts for now, although I am not so traditional so I am sure other people are bound to disagree with this approach.

[Berugijin]

now all that said here are some of my revelations.
In Iaido when one bows to the sword it has roots in ancestor worship of Japan, I throw that mentality out the door and bow before the God I have pledged my life to. Same in Kenpo. When asked to meditate, i do a biblical meditation... I dont clear my mind I reflect on God or his Word.

In my opinion you're not doing kenpo but something that looks like it. Throwing out tradition and assimilating it into your own stupid beliefs ruins the art. I don't like your mix-'n-match attitude.

It's like I would go around saying I'm a christian priest but I don't believe in Jesus. In fact he was just a Mexican crackpot.

[Yaiba]

Hmmm... this is a difficult one.

As you well know, "Budo" (ie Japanese martial arts) was developed by the Japanese, whose psyche has been heavily influenced by Buddhism, Shintoism and, to some extent, Confuciusm for many centuries. My personal opinion is that you tend to get more out of Kendo, etc, if you're a follower of any of the above mentioned religions as it kind of reinforces the teachings of martial arts. For me, it's the combination of the philosophical concepts to the hard activities that makes me appreciate what is Kendo.

In Iaido when one bows to the sword it has roots in ancestor worship of Japan, I throw that mentality out the door and bow before the God I have pledged my life to. Same in Kenpo. When asked to meditate, i do a biblical meditation... I dont clear my mind I reflect on God or his Word.

Now, I've been brought up in a semi-Buddhist kind of family (like most Asian families, I guess) and it's only been just recently that I've started to look into Buddhism in more detail... so I'll try my best here.

Firstly, I think you may have a misunderstanding of the concept of "ancestor worship". It is just all about paying respect to your ancestors and being grateful for what they have done before you came into this world... I don't think this should be a difficult thing to do, even if you are a Christian. I mean, aren't you grateful to your parents, grandparents, and so on?

Secondly, meditation (from a Buddhist's point of view) is that it is an exercise to help you clear your mind so that you may hopefully reach Enlightenment. Now, you'll need to study Buddhism to understand what this is because it's not a simple thing to grasp but one of the things that Buddhists strive to achieve during meditation is to relinquish the sense of "I", "me", "self", etc. When I meditate at training, I employ a similar method and all I try to do is disregard everything that is outside of the dojo (including "me" and what happens around "me") because those things aren't necessary for keiko. Without trying to sound disrespectful, a "biblical meditation" is the complete opposite (ie thoughts going into mind) and I would imagine that this would just clutter your mind, making it somewhat disorderly.

When asked to participate in Japanese cermonies of any kind I DO participate.... all for one reason. I am trying to be culturally relevent. When I went to My recently deceased grand master's widow's house we burned incense and stuff of that nature. But instead of giving the dead well wishes, we prayed for his wife and hoped for doors of ministry to open. If we had not done what we did the door would have been shut and we would have insulted a friends wife.

Hmmm... well, I think your intentions are good so I don't have a problem with this. Although, some people may not be as open-minded as I may be.

Sorry if my post has been offensive to anyone (that wasn't my intention) but all I wanted to do was highlight some of my personal thoughts on this. Feel free to comment... I'd be interested to learn how other people feel about this.

Also, please correct any misunderstandings I may have about Buddhism... like I said, I'm still only a novice.

[rainmaker]

So, are you going to shave your head like old samurai did ? Do you believe in Buddism and Shintoism ? I don't think you know diddley squat about old tradition. Can you dare to tell him what to believe or not ? Attitude like you cause fight and war. At least John is trying to harmonize his belief and what he is learning..

In my opinion you're not doing kenpo but something that looks like it. Throwing out tradition and assimilating it into your own stupid beliefs ruins the art. I don't like your mix-'n-match attitude.

It's like I would go around saying I'm a christian priest but I don't believe in Jesus. In fact he was just a Mexican crackpot.

[drizzt]

In my opinion you're not doing kenpo but something that looks like it. Throwing out tradition and assimilating it into your own stupid beliefs ruins the art. I don't like your mix-'n-match attitude.

It's like I would go around saying I'm a christian priest but I don't believe in Jesus. In fact he was just a Mexican crackpot.

Opinions are like butt cracks, everyone has one and most of them stink.......


Now in a more tactful manner, it is NOT the same as a christian priest claiming to not beleive in jesus. this is a martial art, and in its purest form was meant as training of the mind and body for combat, NOT a religious ceremony. To preach a close minded dogmatic response for either side is simply assanineness.....

it is nice to see others whoe understand how to fit there own beleifs into things are nice. Wether we beleive or not, other religions must be respected. it is there right to choose...

[Frame]

wait wait.......... we're all in agreement that we can do kendo without religion having anything to do with it... so.... what's the prob here? lets just go hit people with sticks and have some beer after shall we?

[Hyaku]

Just a few thoughs and recent connections with religion in Japan....

I take part in Buddhist ceremonies every single day. When I look at the people around me its quite obvious that most are intent on other thoughts and are just going through the motions. Nowadays in Japan Buddhism is mostly concerned with dying. People die, they make money. On that note I have been to a lot a funerals and seen a shocking lack or veneration for the departed.

I do have some friends who are quite devout priests. Then again its not uncommon for them to eat meat. I went to a Yakitori (barbecue shop) a few months ago and it was packed with a Buddhist priests get together. Then the next week at an hour long sermon we were all disciplined on the horrors of killing even a mosquito. Not exactly practicing what you preach comes to mind.

I had a few concerns about Shinto this week. In two weeks I do a once every ten year demonstration for Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai. For us this will include a trip to pay respects at Yasukuni Shrine. As its so controversial I was not sure if I should go or not. So I talked to a few learned people about it. I was told that I should go because Japan LOST the war. Good or bad they put their hands together and try and learn from it.

In all Japanese are extremley pragmatic about religion. They take part in shinto ceremonies for the young, have christian wedding and die buddhists. But it seems to me in religion like a lot more things in Japan they just like many thing here go through sheeplike motions.

[Berugijin]

So, are you going to shave your head like old samurai did ? Do you believe in Buddism and Shintoism ? I don't think you know diddley squat about old tradition. Can you dare to tell him what to believe or not ? Attitude like you cause fight and war. At least John is trying to harmonize his belief and what he is learning..

Yes you are correct. Berugijin is single-handedly responsible for

• Over nine crusades (rape, pillage, murder)
• Molesting little church boys
• Spreading hatred towards minorities
• ...

Wait... That wasn't me that was christianity!

[Berugijin]

Opinions are like butt cracks, everyone has one and most of them stink.......


Now in a more tactful manner, it is NOT the same as a christian priest claiming to not beleive in jesus. this is a martial art, and in its purest form was meant as training of the mind and body for combat, NOT a religious ceremony. To preach a close minded dogmatic response for either side is simply assanineness.....

Thank you for proving my point. If he is thinking about god, jesus and $mythological_figure during meditation (mokuso for example) then I think that's wrong. Things like mokuso are important for the "mind" aspect of "mind and body" in martial arts, no?

[piggy]

settle down berugijin. the crusades were a long time ago and they were initiated by the pope to quiet the war-hungry land of europe. i think that if he does not feel that it is right to participate in the cerimonies and instead, incorperate his own beliefs, that is perfectly fine.
it was not the christians that did those bad things, it was certian individuals.i am not christian myself but i am tired of hearing people put down other religions.
if he does not feel that he should do the cerimonies, is that so much your problem? let him do what he wants and you do what you want.

[JohnHershman]

wow... didnt mean to stir the pot like that.

I need to clarify some things.... first of all... I am not a relativist... I do believe in absolute truth and that it is found only in the Bible ( NOW I am gonna get flamed).

Berugijin.... i didnt mean to offend you, but I do think it is possible to practice an art and not participate in the spiritual aspects of it.... Okinawan Kenpo as is has very little spiritual influence in it so it's possible to practice it with a Christian mindset and not change anything.

The purpose of the post was to show there can be a cooperation between martial arts and the Christian faith and that by going through things like cermonies and rituals when around those who can take your not participating as rude. The japanese have a great culture and I dont think we should americanize it in order to have them come into the Faith( I speak to Christians with this).

sorry for any confusion

[rainmaker]

Great, so decide to ditch your own culture and reinvent yourself to be a Japanese... Buddy, wake up and learn some your European hisotry first. Jesus never asked people to kill each others, Jesus never teach to molest little church boys, nor spread hatred towards minorities. It is stupid human who are are using religion as a tool to hurt other people. People like you!

Yes you are correct. Berugijin is single-handedly responsible for

• Over nine crusades (rape, pillage, murder)
• Molesting little church boys
• Spreading hatred towards minorities
• ...

Wait... That wasn't me that was christianity!

[StarD0G101]

Terribly sorry to say this. But the moment you try to speak of religion (from a Christian point of view anyway) and associate it with a martial art, you immediately place yourself in juxtaposition to your religion.

Martial or for the purpose of war.. you must never forget that these arts are designed with a single point in mind, to ensure your continued survival at the expense of another. How you rationalise your partaking in the ceremony/keiko is entirely up to you, however; there is much to be learned about oneself and from one another in the training, which is far more important than under what or whose banner you do it in. These arts are a vehicle through which one can strive to improve oneself and ones fellowship with mankind.

The discipline and physical investment associated with the learning of these arts is an attractive value and is what many, if not all kendo-ka, naginata-no-hito etc.. strive to master.

Raising the Crusades and any other conflict within a religious context is pointless and can only serve to inflame, no religion is stain free when it comes to pain and suffering that it has directly or indirectly inflicted apon centuries of human existance. Better to leave sleeping dogs lie and focus on improving your own budo before worrying about how another does the same.



Now enough with the lecturing... go do some Haya-suburi!

[Hisham]

Couldn't agree more StarD0G101. IMHO responsability will always come back to the people, religions, ideologies ....etc are only tools that can be used for good or for bad, as we all know anything can be twisted either way if you add the human factor into the equation.
John about meditation, focusing on your breathing and trying to be more alert of your body parts and your surroundings doesn't make you a budhist. It's a practical tool that'll help you with your training. It doesn't have to be about religion but of course you're free to see it that way. Anyway the fact that you tried to find a middle ground is in itself commendable.