Kote-Men speed...

[tango]

I'm late to this thread, but it's a good one!

I can't remember the sensei I heard this from, but it was several years ago and he said, "If you want fast(er) kote-men, then SAY kote-men FAST(ER)" .. part of the mentality of working to get your body moving as fast as your voice.. I know that that did help me (although it screwed up my timing for a little bit in the beginning).

..but doing that also caused my footwork to be faster.

I learned a trick from a guy in our class who trainined in Chicago for a little while.. He was taught to SLIDE the right foot forward (don't leave the left foot behind) when you hit kote, and then fumikomi on the men.

...he does this and his kote-men is pretty damn fast. I'm still working on the slide because of the habit of doing fumikomi twice.

[T.Nilges]

I learned a trick from a guy in our class who trainined in Chicago for a little while.. He was taught to SLIDE the right foot forward (don't leave the left foot behind) when you hit kote, and then fumikomi on the men.

...he does this and his kote-men is pretty damn fast. I'm still working on the slide because of the habit of doing fumikomi twice.

According to Traditionalist Kendo this is incorrect. All strikes should be done with proper form. A practioner of Competetive Kendo would say that if this gives an edge in about then it is justified. Under this circumstance I feel that both would disagree with the lack of fumikomi on the kote. The fumikomi acts as a spring board for the men strike. Fumikomi is faster than striking and as such the removal of the fumikomi will only create the illusion that you strike is faster.

[tango]

According to Traditionalist Kendo this is incorrect. All strikes should be done with proper form. A practioner of Competetive Kendo would say that if this gives an edge in about then it is justified. Under this circumstance I feel that both would disagree with the lack of fumikomi on the kote. The fumikomi acts as a spring board for the men strike. Fumikomi is faster than striking and as such the removal of the fumikomi will only create the illusion that you strike is faster.

The concept is similar in fashion to what Neil posted earlier:

The fumikomi on the kote should be much lighter than on the men. If you have a strong fumikomi, then your motion will tend to stop and you'll have kote, then men rather than kote-men. So think light. You can also say "te-men" rather than "kote-men" to emphasize this. Remember that most of the action is with the left hand. Keep it light on the kote and let the shinai naturally rebound up so that you're ready for men. The right hand should just be moving on a steady path towards the kote and then smoothly up towards men rather than pulling back. Make sure you get a nice little rhythm with the light kote and stronger men - pa-PUM, not BAM-BAM.

Now, I've only been doing kendo for a little more than 10 years and I know about using fumikomi as a 'spring board' --- but trust me, I know a faster kote-men when I see it (and feel it). It's not an illusion.

Whether it's "valid" or not is immaterial, since the idea is not to score the kote, but rather, the men. ... and the men requires fumikomi.

[DCPan]

I learned a trick from a guy in our class who trainined in Chicago for a little while.. He was taught to SLIDE the right foot forward (don't leave the left foot behind) when you hit kote, and then fumikomi on the men.

Can you clarify your description here?

Are you saying the guy is taking two steps still, just that the step for the kote is okuri-ashi instead of fumokomi?

There is actually something called the nito-issoku kote-men where you strike kote-men with only one step. In this case, you would hit kote at the moment of de-ashi and men on the fumikomi.

YMMV

[tango]

Can you clarify your description here?

Are you saying the guy is taking two steps still, just that the step for the kote is okuri-ashi instead of fumokomi?

Yes, that's precisely what I meant. TRY IT OUT!!
I'm telling you, he's worked on it pretty hard and he's much faster with it now than he was a couple years ago.

I have to consciously think of it to do it... As I said, I normally just fall back to second nature... fumikomi x2. During kihon, I try to work on it and I do notice more quickness.. If you try it out, let us know how it works for you..

[Charlie]

Hey, Mark, there have been times when I attacked with kote men, got the kote, and just let the zanshin carry me beyond that. At other times, I have attacked kote men, got the kote, and still gone after the men - cancelling the kote, pretty much, cuz I fouled up the zanshin. Still other times I get neither, of course!

TNilges, welcome to an old debate on this forum, the fumikomi-vs.-tsuri-ashi debate. General consensus, if I'm stating this correctly, is that while fumikomi is often what's taught as textbook kendo, in actuality cutting with a sliding step is equally as valid. That's a huge generalization of it, though, I think there's a very long thread on it somewhere.

By the way, we're all late to the thread, isn't this thread a year old or so?

[Shazzanzzz]

I just wanted to add that I do 3 kinds of kote men.

1) Fake kote, men - I fake kote, while starting to move, go to the other side of the shinai, then strike men. one step.

2) kote-men - normal kote-men, two steps, i usually don't move my left foot much though, unless the opponent backs up.

3) kote(shinai)-men - get center by hitting the shinai down, hit kote and tsuba and shinai, then go for men. two steps on this one also.

i usually start from the 2nd one and adjust according to the opponent.