Traits of a 'good' kendo student.

[mingshi]

The ability to drink lots ...

[dotnet]

Just show up regularily. Experience has shown me it's a trait that 99% of kendo students don't have.

This is absolutely correct. By mentioning perseverence I had this in mind as well. Other manifestations could be not giving up in keiko.

This is something fundamental. Without training there will be no development. But what about the attitude during keiko. Should you think about what your sensei said (refelect) or should you simply do it without reflection ? I.E. is this time wasted ?

kyu = no reflection ?
> 1. dan = some reflection ?

You can argue about character, but lack of good technical ability does not mean that people aren't good students.

When I was talking about technical abilities I only meant this as a goal. What traits do you need to attain excellent technical skills. I believe as a basis good technique is simply necessary and should be set as one of a few goals.

As for breaking with tradition, it's already 'built in' with shu-ha-ri.

I haven't heard this term before. I just read about it right now (google) but it this was exactly what I was aiming at. I still need to think a bit about the Shu-ha part to make my questions more precise but thanks for the term !

Cheers,
dotnet

[dotnet]

I'm not sure does this make any sense to you

It makes perfect sense !

Sometimes due to certain circumstances I even went to class late (but not practicing), and sit one side to observe.

Are you not allowed to join class when you are late? I understand that it is disrespectful when you are late even though you could have made it in time but if your work prohibits you from being on time isn't it alright to simply join class without disturbing it during your warm-up ?

I'll still show up when I can't practice, for example, injured.

I simply went to the beginners class. Basics are always good .

Once an injury prohibited my from training. By chance, I had the key to our dojo (gym in a public school) so I had to show up anyway. Observing class was actually quite interesting.

Cheers,
dotnet

[hyuna]

Isn't the ideal student the one who listens and reflects but secretly questions the senseis advice

I think "questioning" is the same as "reflecting" in the way you are using these words. When you question the surface meaning and look deeper, that is reflection.

This is not the same as rebeliousness or lack of respect. If you respect your teacher, you know that even in their trivial statements lies deep truth that needs to be sought out. So one questions everything out of respect.

But there are some things that should not be questioned at some given stage of development. Of course, questioning those things is rebelious. Perhaps counterproductive.

What is honest and sincere in these circumstances is to follow what you are taught. If you are to follow your teacher's teachings, you must understand them. Striving to understand them is not dishonest or insincere. What is dishonest is to take those teachings, misinterpret them, and to practice and teach a distortion in their place. Therefore, it is critical to be sure to understand as fully as you are capable -- neither seeking a deeper meaning than you are ready for nor being satisfied with a meaning that is more shallow than what you are capable of. It is the same as with keiko; it is not productive to practice waza that are beyond your ability to execute, and it is not productive to practice waza that are trivial for you.

What makes a ideal student in kendo is no different from what makes an ideal student in anything. In my opinion, it is nothing more than a pure and egoless dedication to the subject.

[Old Warrior]

In my opinion, it is nothing more than a pure and egoless dedication to the subject.

The largest wall hanging in our dojang has 2 large characters. I recently asked what they mean because I was photgraphed standing in front of it. I was told they were "Moo Ahn" which roughly translates to "a state of absence of ego". Apparently, someone else had your same thought in my "neck of the woods".

[samurai999]

The ability to drink lots ...

YES!!!!

Seriously tho.. I think one big component of kendo is diligence. Another is attentiveness (willingness to learn). The last is patience.

Tim

[samurai999]

Idealistically speaking. IMO most people have either rank and/or competition success as their main goal.

And those people usually don't get too far... Therefore the high dropout rate.

Tim

[Charuzu]

One thing that seems popular with the hachidan are viewing the matches as just practice like (for example) suburi, ect.

But then again, since I am new, so feel free to dis-regard my comments.

< (_ _) >

[A.Zee]

The ability to drink lots ...

THAT, can also be trained if you show up regularly...

[Kapplow]

its good to be humble too.

I also try to keep in mind that I learn far more about myself from failure than I do from success. I dont like to lose, and nor do I ever strive to lose, but when I do lose, I know exactly why and what to do to correct myself.

[yohed55]

my sempai explained it to me like this


"learning kendo is like going from point A to point B by going halfway each time, at first you take big steps but later you take little steps, and you never reach point B (perfection)"

i don't know how this helps, but i keep thinking about it, i am going crazy because my dojo wasn't open monday (kendo night) so i have to wait until thursday.

[dotnet]

"learning kendo is like going from point A to point B by going halfway each time, at first you take big steps but later you take little steps, and you never reach point B (perfection)"

This remindes me of Achilles and the tortoise in Zeno's paradox. Has anyone read "Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas Hofstadter ? I had to restart twice and I am still not finished

Cheers,
dotnet

[dotnet]

I think "questioning" is the same as "reflecting" in the way you are using these words. When you question the surface meaning and look deeper, that is reflection.

Correct. Essentialy I only mean reflection.

Therefore, it is critical to be sure to understand as fully as you are capable -- neither seeking a deeper meaning than you are ready for nor being satisfied with a meaning that is more shallow than what you are capable of.

Either way you look at it. Simple things are complicated and complicated things are simple. Once you have realised this you have short break - only to realise that simple things are indeed simple. That's why I believe it is sometimes not good to ponder too long on a problem - on the other hand I believe it is important to reflect.

However you want to put. To me it remains a paradox. There is not precise answer - or I have simply not understood it . I probably have to find a healthy balance.

What makes a ideal student in kendo is no different from what makes an ideal student in anything. In my opinion, it is nothing more than a pure and egoless dedication to the subject.

egoless dedication .... I wish this thought would cross more peoples minds.
A thought on this trait: Isn't egolessness a manifestation of one's ego to be egoless. Is selflessness and altruism 'better' than egosim ? In both cases your simply follow your interests and aims.

Arghh .... my mind is too clouded ! I need some keiko ! Afterwards I always fell much better.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers,
dotnet

[ben]

If you think tennis is good for those reasons, you should play table tennis. Faster than a cheetah with a molotov up its behind...

Straying a bit OT for a moment...I agree tabletennis is good for reflexes but tennis is a great one because it requires so much footwork. You have to move your body to where the ball is first, then you can hit it. TT uses a lot of lunging AFAIK, which in kendo would equate with poor posture. I've raved before on this forum about Agassi's tennis. His use of his feet is sublime. He always seems to be in position before the ball gets there so that he can return the ball with ease and not be at full stretch. I would say he nearly always hits from his hara. Of course he's in his autumn years now...

Yes, perseverance. "Knocked down seven times, get up eight."

After perseverance, humility. With humility you can learn from others, especially your opponents. Without it you think you already have all the answers.

After humility naturally comes gratitude, for just being able to do kendo, and for all the people inside and outside the dojo that allow that to happen.

b

[tantadi]

And those people usually don't get too far... Therefore the high dropout rate.

Tim

Don't agree; attaining rank in kendo is easier than in most other martial arts. Competition success might not be that easy, but the opportunity to compete is good. IMo the dropout rate has mostly to do with unrealistic expectations.