3rd lesson = lots of questions please!

[ekajati]

Lots of Newbie questions, kind Kendokas!

1) Practicing Men yesterday the Motodachi (correct term?) got a little miffed, I think, that I didn’t pause in chudan before striking. Why is this? I mean, shouldn’t someone experienced be prepared for surprise? Or is it because that’s how the form is?
2) Are you supposed to put any strength into the Men or is it just a tap? It must be annoying as hell to be whacked by ignorant new people! If it is just a tap, would that have been enough with a real sword or is that just how its done in Kendo?
3) The Do strike – how do you manage to get the Shinai string horizontal, as I understood it should be on striking, without swooping the shinai as it comes down – is it just a twist at the last minute? Different students told me different things but the overall consensus was not to do a “baseball bat” type move.
4) What’s the correct way to measure your Men distance? When I just whent a little bit in from the tip of the Motodachi’s shinai I didn’t get anywhere near their Men, just annoying got them in the grill or the neck (oops!). I really had to go almost to the limit of the cutting edge to get anywhere, and couldn’t work out why as the Motodachi’s didn’t seem that much taller than me. From the way they kept stepping back I could tell most people manage with just the tip. I thought I was going crazy or had a particularly short shinai (I didn’t!) and felt v confused…
5) I stretched before the lesson and felt fine after, but now – 2 days later – I feel like a cripple (we had to do that massacring nasty jumping up & down suburi – haya? Hayashi?) – isn’t this weird to feel that so later afterwards? Or is it normal?

Many thanks!

[Toaster]

Hello! Welcome to kendo

So, I'll do my best to answer your questions....

1. I've always been told to return to chudan by my sensei, and begin a strike with chudan. Not sure on this one though, might just have been for the purpose of the lesson.
2. Put some strength into men, but not with the right hand! All of the strenght should come from the left hand, the right is only there to guide. don't smak too hard though, if nothing else you'll break your shinai.
3. Yeh! definately, don't go down the baseball bat lane (teehee...) Just a simple twist and a nearly straight cut should do the job It takes a while, but you'll get the hang of it in time even if it does feel strange.
4. Hmm.... this ones a little difficult without actually seeing you practice, though my advice would be to make sure your cut lands round about in between the end of the shinai and the first knot up from that (I don't know whether you know the terminology so I'll keep it simple ). you'll eventually get a feel for where you need to be standing to hit that point, up till then - just give it a go!
5. Lactic acid! The sprotsmans enemy.... Don't wory about this- it happens to me all the time! it probably can be avoided by a long cool down

Hope this helps.

[Hisham]

[quote=ekajati]
1) Chudan is the basic kamae (stance) in Kendo.
2) There supposed to be a "snappy" cutting motion when you "tap", ask your sensei about it.
3) Ask your sensei. Words can't show you the right movement.
4) In my short experience, i used to hit the grill of the men because the level of my hands was lower than it should be, anyway better ask your sensei.
5) Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness or DOMS.

[Neil Gendzwill]

1) Practicing Men yesterday the Motodachi (correct term?) got a little miffed, I think, that I didn’t pause in chudan before striking. Why is this?

You're learning, not trying to beat him. Return to the basic stance, make sure you're correct, then swing. Frankly I'm surprised you're hitting anything on your third lesson.

2) Are you supposed to put any strength into the Men or is it just a tap?

At this point, just make a nice relaxed swing with no muscle behind it and worry more about a big swing and a correct motion than how hard you're hitting. Later on you'll learn how not to hurt your partner by controlling the stopping point.

3) The Do strike – how do you manage to get the Shinai string horizontal, as I understood it should be on striking, without swooping the shinai as it comes down – is it just a twist at the last minute?

Not horizontal, 45 degrees. Again I'm surprised you're doing this on the third lesson. The proper motion is difficult to describe but basically your left hand is moving straight up and down same as for men and the right hand is making the turn.

4) What’s the correct way to measure your Men distance?

This distance depends on you but most beginners don't make a big enough step. Try starting with the nakayui (the leather knot partway down the shinai) crossed and experiment from there.

5) I stretched before the lesson and felt fine after, but now – 2 days later – I feel like a cripple (we had to do that massacring nasty jumping up & down suburi – haya? Hayashi?) – isn’t this weird to feel that so later afterwards? Or is it normal?

Hayasuburi - and what you're experiencing is normal for a beginner, once you're used to practice you won't get delayed soreness.

Overall it sounds like you're experiencing the "throw 'em in the deep end" style of teaching. Just remember that while you're doing this you need to do these motions as a beginner. Politely ignore the advice of the less experienced people "helping" you to do it their way and perform each drill as the sensei instructs. At this point, everything should be basic, big and relaxed. Speed and power are not concerns right now.

[Toaster]

Overall it sounds like you're experiencing the "throw 'em in the deep end" style of teaching.

I really want to find out where this person practices, as if they have been coming to my dojo, Then they've missed all of the bigginer lessons . It would still be interesting to ind out the dojo where you practice though ekajati.

[ekajati]

Hi everyone

Thanks for your replies. I'm the only "new-new" person at my London Dojo so I think they feel its ok to let me tag along with the slightly more experienced ones (I think it's only a matter of a few weeks between us). It feels ok to me, perhaps because I've done various martial arts before - lots of Judo as a child and tai chi not so long ago.

I just found it really bizzarre with the Men thing because the other day I was doing it with quite a tall Motodachi and everything was fine, then the last lesson I was doing it with a rather shorter M and my shinai was going in all the wrong places. Perhaps the tall lady was allowing for me and stepping in so the cut would go right, I really don't know. Neil, I think you are right I definitely need to take a bigger step and measure with the Nakayui not the tip. Also thanks re the point of letting it be big and relaxed.

Inuyasha - how you describe the Do was how a Sempai showed me - looked very subtle and quick - and difficult to get right without a "swing" to it - this is where I guess I get to relax in my beginner-hood!

Thanks again all

E

[nodachi]

1) Practicing Men yesterday the Motodachi (correct term?) got a little miffed, I think, that I didn’t pause in chudan before striking. Why is this? I mean, shouldn’t someone experienced be prepared for surprise? Or is it because that’s how the form is?

The motodachi is probably expecting you to go through a set routine of motions. You are just starting so they are looking for set form. They were surprized because their job right now is to be a hitting dummy for you. Don't worry... when you get to jigeiko with them after getting bogu, you will have quite a challenge trying to surprise them...

2) Are you supposed to put any strength into the Men or is it just a tap? If it is just a tap, would that have been enough with a real sword or is that just how its done in Kendo?

Whether it is a real sword or it is Kendo, form is more important than strength. It may look like tapping when you see advanced people hitting, but they have learned just the right amount of force to use. You will learn it with time.

3) The Do strike – how do you manage to get the Shinai string horizontal, as I understood it should be on striking, without swooping the shinai as it comes down – is it just a twist at the last minute? Different students told me different things but the overall consensus was not to do a “baseball bat” type move.

I'll repeat Neil's advice about 45 degrees being your angle of attack. Right now really focus on your left hand. If you can keep your left hand in the center, that is a big step in the right direction and it will negate a lot of the movement that result in baseball swings.

4) What’s the correct way to measure your Men distance?

Everyone's distance is different. You are going to have to feel it out over time and it will become instinctual to you. The big thing that has been mentioned before is footwork. If you fall short when you try to attack, you may be starting too far, but if you propel yourself with proper footwork you'd probably reach. Since this is just your third lesson, you should still be thinking primarily of your feet. The arms just go up and down. Very simple concept, although it will take time to get it to be efficient and correct. The feet are always going to be one of the most important aspects of your kendo to correct and improve.

5) I stretched before the lesson and felt fine after, but now – 2 days
later – I feel like a cripple (we had to do that massacring nasty jumping up & down suburi – haya? Hayashi?) – isn’t this weird to feel that so later afterwards? Or is it normal?

It's called hayasuburi, and it is super good training, so learn to love it! Also, maybe you should also be stretching after your lesson as well. It may help.

[ekajati]

Many thanks Nodachi for the interesting points eg about footwork, and also Hisham and Inuyasha I forgot to say ta for the muscle info - I'm still hobbling around 1st thing in the morning with my hayasumurdered legs but at least I know why now! And Nodachi, thanks for the point about stretching afterwards, I think I had been told and completely forgot. It makes sense. I'm really looking forward to and intrigued by the jigeiko stage (although I know I mustn't rush)!

[Toaster]

I'm still hobbling around 1st thing in the morning with my hayasumurdered legs

Haha! "hayasumurdered".... I'll have to remember that one

[Kendo ISB]

I just found it really bizzarre with the Men thing because the other day I was doing it with quite a tall Motodachi and everything was fine, then the last lesson I was doing it with a rather shorter M and my shinai was going in all the wrong places. Perhaps the tall lady was allowing for me and stepping in so the cut would go right, I really don't know. Neil, I think you are right I definitely need to take a bigger step and measure with the Nakayui not the tip. Also thanks re the point of letting it be big and relaxed.
E

taller motodach in many beginners opinion is easier to hit. Because "men" strike hits the head, so when someone is taller or of same height the head height is just about right. Shorter people can be confusing, I know cuz i fought a weeny kid in a tourney and i could only hit men (which was literally my usual kote height.) so dont sweat it, if you swing properly and big you should get a nice sound. If you hit the face plate and it doesn't have that "pow" sound, its still a point (just for reference). Some sempai will tilt their head to let you have a better hit though. Be thankful for that.

Good luck on your kendo! Remember to keep pushing your body to the limit, and BREATHE PROPERLY. Peace!